Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Hi all - well, considering all the recent controversy around WAR, I can't WAIT to see what kind of drama this announcement stirs up!
I'm ready to have folks test out a new way of drafting Favorite Teams. See the details on this blog post.
https://www.pennantchase.com/home/b..
I look forward to having some people try it out and see how it goes...
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
This is going to be a BLAST! Brand new challenge, can’t wait to give it a spin.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
I joined
Can I be the Cardinals
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Yup, very good 70 point system, you can go top heavy on an NBA team with 4 greats and some role players or "spread the wealth" - love it!
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
I think it is great. It is a very similar thing to what we use in my bowling leagues. We set an average limit that teams can have so you can't come in with a completely stacked team. So if you have one player with a really high average (myself as an example at 228) you have to take a much weaker bowler to make up for the difference. The setting currently is a 800 max for 4 man teams.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Also think this opens the door to a college football version of the football sim…think of the dynasties/eras colliding!
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Another great addition , I've played some other sim games that use this type of format to keep things even so you can't have a team of all plus 1 ops and sub 1 whips. The no dupe franchise rule is also long overdue. And by keeping the old way too , it's a win for everyone.Unfortanately , there will still be those who complain because if they don't win every league they are in , the game is broke. What I've never understood is why people still cant understand that if you play a team with all stars at every position , of course your not going to put up the same numbers. Best free game out there continuing to improve imho. I remember back in the late 70's early 80's there was statis pro baseball and basketball. The basketball game had a cap on how many fgatt , reb etc you could get in a game before you had to sub out and the only way you could go over was if the sub went past his limit. Game played great plus it had a chart for you to make your own cards. Anyone remember statis pro ? You had to keep your own stats with a pencil , or if you were really daring , a pen !!
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Hi Guy,
I like it! My only suggestion is to show more stats before you click a player. For instance, I picked the Phillies and wanted a good defensive 3B. I picked Mike Schmidt, and it showed me some of his stats, but I had to click all the way through to see all of his seasons before I saw dWAR. I think dWAR and maybe some other stats should be more front and center.
I'm a bit puzzled as to why players are requesting certain teams and why the league is so full, given your direction to quit the league as soon as we're done drafting. I'd be happy to join a real league that is set up like this.
Anyway, well done--another great improvement, and as others have said, the fact that you're keeping the old format makes this a win-win!
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
I love this. Super fun to build. Lots of strategy.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
This is outstanding. I love everything about it! After playing with the drafting my only suggestion is to echo Acecannon that it would be useful if the results of the Search by WAR feature showed dwar along with the triple slash line.
One question, are the new playing time minimums going to be used in the old favorite teams format or only in this one?
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Love it!!!!!
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I like that we can now use players who could never be used before because their teams were so bad. Rick Reuschel 1985 for example.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Tried a Blue Jays build and a Twins build. Love it. Brings almost every decent player into the mix which is great. Lets you use some of your favorite players. Even if they didn’t have all-time great seasons they could be part of a good team build. Thanks Guy!
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Don't forget to quit the league so others can try.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Think it is great, my one question is with a 23 man roster, I am assuming no injuries or EN are being used?
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
So we’re not actually playing games in this test? Just testing the drafting?
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Thanks everyone. I like the idea of adding dwar to the search results so you don’t have to click in (maybe I could squeeze speed in there too).
I wasn’t planning to change the AB limits of the OLD fav teams since the two formats are so different. In this format I did not want people to be able to get a low WAR/low AB/high impact player since Auto Leagues don’t use EN. That’s why the AB was raised to 250.
Auto leagues will need some random scrubs as free agents to account for injuries and things like that.
@follow right now just testing out the draft. I have some work to do to make this format an Auto League option. Custom leagues can start using this if they wish.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Got it! Can’t wait for this to become live! So many variations, you could run the same team out with all kinds of different rosters!
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Off topic but kind of on topic, I think mlb needs a minimum salary cap so the cheapskates like the A's White Sox and Marlins cant keep throwing out the same lame teams. MLB right now is the haves make the playoffs and the have nots are cannon fodder.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
It's more along the line of the SOM 360 game - where a "salary" cap is involved. I would like to see what a couple of live leagues look like, but in theory, it should level the playing field. The drafting process takes a little getting used to, but not terribly demanding. You need another window open with BB Reference and/or your Sandbox open. I can see low AB/IP players with really good stats, but low WAR being bargains. I'm intrigued.....
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I like it a lot.
I guess there will be a lot of parity in these now.
Couple of loopholes I have in sight to watch for :
1994 Strike Shorthened season allows for players with great stats and lower WAR than usual. There will be tons of bargains from that season.
Good Relievers with low to marginal WAR numbers are fairly easy to get. I dont think there was a minimum amount of innings set for RP. I was able to draft some relievers with 24 IP ,etc.. It is quite easy to stack a good bullpen.
Not sure what are the minimums IP and AB set for SP, RP or Hitters.
Minus WAR players do get your cap down...
Example : My Backup Catcher Taubensse was -1 WAR and Todd Walker was -.65 WAR. It brought my salary cap down.
I could also draft tons of extra players with MINUS WAR on top of the 23 or 25 required, I could then cheat and stack my Roster since the Minus WAR players brought my CAP down..
It would make more sense to have all the minus WAR players count for 0 on the cap.
A 30 player roster would also be more interesting. As we could load on 0 or - WAR players to fill some holes as pinch runners, offense only oriented players with terrible gloves... good defenders but offense liability.
Overall, it looks very fun to use and draft and fiddling a roster is great.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
If any of the BotB, Big 8, Dismissed Teams league crowd create a custom league to try this out and play it out, let me know.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
GUY! This is going to be great. Other simulation sites use this format and is very popular. I am certain your version of this will be the best. Great decision I look forward to trying it out and sending you feedback :)
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
This format looks to be a real winner. I’d suggest adding 12-15 WAR per team in order to allow for 26-man rosters with 3 minor leaguers as Fav Teams have been and dispense with a supplemental draft and early season waivers. I endorse the comment that we should try to discourage people from selecting players with negative WARs to game the system by using a minimum 0 WAR per player. If not, I foresee players with high negative WARs becoming the anti-Matt Carpenter/Matt Olson unicorns. For example, the Orioles have 2018 Chris Davis (-3.3) and 1933 St L Brown Jim Levey (-3.9). Also, I suggest that a team should not be able to exceed its total WAR via trades or waiver claims. Thanks, Guy.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Another vote to make negative WAR players not subtract from the team WAR total. Otherwise the optimal strategy will always be to stock the minors with the worst players possible, which is lame.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Great call, I agree with everyone on the negative WAR problem. I will work on that.
This also made me realize while it's a fringe concern, I do have to put roster limits in place because some odd duck will come along and add 100 players to his team!
My thought was to allow for people to go over the draft-required minimums, but I'll have to see if I can ditch the Supplemental Draft for Fav Teams. I think we will need some random scrubs in Free Agency just in case.
I do like the idea of not being able to go over budget on trades. How do people feel about trades overall? Do people like the possibility or should we dump them entirely in this new Fav Teams?
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I would dump the trades and is even dump Free Agency. Just build your team and live with the results. Learn for next time if things go wrong. If you get to add players who played on other teams through trades or FA then it kind of defeats the purpose of Fav Teams, in my opinion. I know that’s always been part of Fav Team leagues in the past but why not try to stick just with franchise players this time since some of the other issues are eliminated in this format (ie. lack of parity).
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I love it and would agree with the negative war players. I added a couple to complete my lineup with better players. This could certainly be abused.
I am never in favor of trading in Fave teams leagues. I like keeping the rosters "pure" that way.
As I wrote in the chat box, 3 more spots and maybe a 90-92 WAR limit.
I built a Royals squad. (I am the Angels team). I searched for Henry Velazquez. The system found him and when I clicked on him for a player search it brought up the "Player Menu" box which was blank. He has a qualifying season last year but I didnt get it as an option. I got nothing.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
May need to reming users to quit the league so others can give it a try.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Griddy, if you mean Nelson Velasquez he didn’t show up because he never had a season with 250 ABs.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Agree with Gus- no trades or FA. Draft a bigger team with more WAR and live with what you got
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Gus, you are right on my friend
No Free Agents or trades , defeats the purpose and the real fun of Favorite Teams Leagues .
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I agree with no trades, no draft - I would like it to be who's best at building a team, not who's the best trader.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I am the king of wheeling and dealing in progression leagues but in this scenario of NO trades OR free agency is the best way to go - keeps the league what is supposed to be - favorite teams. Thanks for all of this work Guy - what a stress reliever at just the right time during these last few years in my real world work career and life!
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
PLEASE remember to leave the league once you are done, it seems always full now, my guess is some are hanging around and not actively building.
Also, gbacci, will this feature now work in a sandbox if you select it as an auto draft to be able to tinker with?
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What about if your favorite team never wheeled or dealed and you’d like a chance at trying your hand where they continually failed? I think a ban on transactions is an overreach…anything that stays under the WAR/WS/AV cap should be fine.
Any word on when these leagues are rolling out? Very excited for the new format.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Like right at this moment no teams are available and only one person is online. maybe it's time to boot a few.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Baseball was the only full sport, I booted anyone who hadn't logged in today, so there are some open spots now.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Can’t wait for this to start! Any thoughts on the rollout timeframe?
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I'm on board with Patrick's suggestion that minus WAR players count for 0 on the cap, I'm against the anti-trade idea. Why? Because, in this game, our role is as the team manager in that we fill out the lineup card, but we are also the GM. When you all talk about "building a team," you're talking about the GM part of participating in this site. We all want the site to be as close to the real thing as possible. Well, in real life, GM's make trades. Of course, those of you who have built a reputation by perennially running out the Cardinals and Dodgers don't want anyone to trade -- the Cardinals and Dodgers don't need trades! My hat's off to anyone who has won a ring with every team, but I bet no one has done it without making trades.
Now, about the size of the roster. I propose, Guy, that you stick with the original number of 23. It's quite a challenge to build a team without any glaring holes using a 23 man roster. I tried with the Angels, and I thought I did rather well (of course, only by playing in a league could I know for sure). The further you go beyond the limit of 23, the more the balance tips in favor of the traditional powerhouses.
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What about a 25 man roster, like the current auto majors has, instead of trades and free agents, allow owners to swap out players from their franchise?
Maybe a max of 3 or so a season, and still enforcing max WAR for a team. Gives owners a chance to make moves, keep franchises limited to only players who played for them.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
@Guy: No one is saying otherwise, but, just to confirm, I like the 250 AB requirement.
If you could limit injuries to no more than 2 per team at any given time, the 23 man roster should suffice.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Well, one thing I've figured out is that if you try to build a team using one of your old models, it doesn't play. Also, using guys with great stat lines but low WAR, usually due to low usage, is essential. I do like the fact that you aren't restricted to 3 or 4 seasons. The 250 AB minimum really throws out a lot of old standby's - I was doing an Angels build and couldn't use the best Napoli season. You can get both versions of '23 Ohtani for a cool 10 WAR though - almost seams like a bargain. It's going to revolutionize Favorite Teams - as I said before, the "salary cap" model reminds me of Strat-O-Matic online.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
I guess my question now is, if there is a 250 AB threshold (which I love) then why not raise the IP threshold for SP’s? Can still get a 21 DeGromm and his 90 innings for 4 WAR, which considering he is the most dominant SP in ATG doesn’t seem quite right.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Argh. I still cant get in
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Personally, my favorite thing to do on this site is build from fave teams league. I may only have a fistful + of titles but it so much fun trying to build a team. They are my favorite custom type leagues as well. The two BOB leagues and a couple of more smaller ones. Shout out to REVEJB and joshbonds who run fave type leagues. Thanks!
So it is killing me to not be able to be more involved in this beta! Lol.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
It's interesting that the whole point of bringing in WAR was to favor guys who stat lines might not otherwise be great, but had hidden value, for a variety of reasons. Whereas this will have the opposite effect--favoring high stat line, low WAR players.
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I think the big question is do we want to wait for me to build a different point system for baseball since WAR isn’t necessarily “fair” or do we try it out for now considering every team will probably have players who are “values”? I could see how some of the newer teams would struggle if they are forced to spend high points on less than stellar players while other franchises get steals like DeGrom or Tiant or whatever.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I don’t think a proprietary points system would necessarily be any fairer - for example we all know Rank doesn’t exactly correspond to how good a player is in PC. I like that you used WAR because it’s a stat everyone already knows and uses. And I think most of the unfairness in WAR is fixed by increasing the playing time minimum like you’ve done for hitters.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
The rank system is much closer to a fair assessment of quality in the sim. The WAR as we are seeing is basically giving away some high value players for free and charging way too much for useless players. Relievers have almost no WAR value. There are numerous examples of “bargains” and “screw overs”. 2022 Ohtani goes for 0 points, while 2018 Kyle Freeland is at 8.44 WAR. I don’t think they would have a similar rank if that was used. Would switching to a rank system all of a sudden make the Rockies pitching staff great? No, but they wouldn’t have to spend 10% of their points on their top WAR pitcher that wouldn’t even make the team for most franchises. At least there would be some balance of quality. So, it depends on the goal of the league. If the goal is to use WAR and make the best of it, then so be it. If the goal is to try to get away from having to hamstring certain teams because they have so much talent and try to create a more level playing field across franchises - then rank is closer, not perfect, closer. Of course rank could even be improved - for that matter. That having been said, I’m very pleased to see an option for Fav Teams away from just selecting by year.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Just want to point out, Ohtani was an error in the database, his pitching WAR that year (2022) has been fixed.
The Rockies are an interesting case, they have no starting pitching at all, so you'd probably have to find "cheap" starters and not be wasting budget on Freeland and cobble together a strong cheap bullpen. Even if you could load up on offense with more budget, we know in PC it would be hard for a team with no SPs to win in an ATG system.
I think we all agree WAR is going to be imperfect, so I'm interested to hear what others have to say.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I think any system will have its flaws. The Rockies have never had elite starting pitching. No system can change that. I’d suggest they load up on their historical outlier OPS guys and spin some deals to try and get some balance in their rotation.
I’m very excited for the new format to get started across all 3 games. It’s a new challenge, with new pluses and minuses..everything will come with limitations. Let’s accept that and play ball/kick/tip off!
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I don't see the Rockies case changing with WAR or the new draft system. They have never had pitching, and playing in Coors, probably never will. They have great O, great defense and can make a very good bullpen. I have won multiple rings with COL in Fav Teams, and would think this new system would allow to load up even more on their strengths.
ALSO time for another boot of users in the league please...
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I agree with others that the existing Rank system is a better approximation of Sim value than WAR. You could do this style, but using Rank, and keep WAR as the new Fire. That will give a boost to high WAR, low stat line players, instead of the opposite.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Really like the idea , it forces you to really think about how your team is put together. Maybe we should have some short seasons, 44 games or so to see how it plays out.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I want to point out, I can't simply use Rank because it's not determined until everyone is in the league. What Barr is suggesting is a global rank of ALL players in history... I couldn't really execute that the way we do in PC leagues without crashing the servers, but I could obviously come up with some sort of arbitrary "value" number based on the stats we know SIM well... ironically, much like the classic "Fire" number... there are pros and cons to that though. The formula would be subjective and obviously I'd have to re-code some things to get that all to work. So TBH I'm leaning toward sticking with WAR and seeing how it goes, but if there was a large push against it I would pivot.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
I think WAR would be the best alternative. I notice that RP minimums dropped to 20, would love to see those back at 35 and SP’s to maybe 100…
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Yes, if WAR is going to be used, and the goal is to not have to develop anything new before testing it out, the easiest solution is to set reasonably high minima to qualify.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I’m heavily in favor of WAR. The imperfection of the measure is what creates numerous potential drafting strategies.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I like the new try out. I like that all teams get the same WAR cap and all franchises are capped.
Rank would mean the franchises that had the most players of the highest rank would still dominate the rings as they do now.
Also in a league I am in now. I have a starter ranked 75. He is by far my lowest ranked starter and is about to win CY Young by a landslide. It is a custom league but he is ranked where he is ranked.
30 team league BTW.
So while rank isn't the end all, I am really digging this WAR system. I have built 3 different franchises with "stars and scrubs " method.
Thanks for the try out Guy!
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Love using WAR for building Franchise Teams [this is my years long push to get "Favorite Teams" renamed "Franchise Teams" as we will build with franchises that are not our favorites].
Don't know if this was addressed or suggested, but...
It would be interesting to have different Franchise Teams leagues with different thresholds, meaning some where 85 is the total WAR for the team build, other leagues that have 95 as the total WAR that can be used to build the team. Maybe some with no limit.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
Looks like the new leagues rolled out in baseball but they filled up fast! Any chance you’ll be adding more leagues?
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I managed to get into one (auto 1237) but it filled some of the teams with bot owners, It says that the league will start 4/20 ? Why not kick out the bots and let some real life owners in since there is so much demand. Also notice one of the bot teams drafted 5 catchers and no ss or 3b . Only 1 of their pos players has a secondary inf designation. Going to be a long season for that team
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Could Dynasty and Dynasty8 be the same person? Is that fair? (Re: Auto League 1237)
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
They are bot teams controlled by the computer to fill out leagues
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Fav teams have always fill like hot cakes...Bots in those leagues have absolutely zero to no reasons to be..
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams Draft
I tested out the Angels and was able to draft Ohtani for both SP and DH. Is this a system error or will this be available?
Thanks! Love this new concept.
Roger
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
You should be able to draft both and both should cost WAR points.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
Baseball. Favorite Teams. Join Leagues. Is there any way to know whether an available league is in the new format or the old format? Currently, there are three leagues on offer (1965 to present). They all appear to be the original format, in which we build our roster selecting from four years. Sorry if I'm overlooking something obvious.
Re: Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I don't believe that the new Fav Teams format is available yet - only the Test Version.
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
And I hate to complain (but I will anyhow), but could I get an option to build that isn't ALWAYS: Kansas City, Miami, NY Mets, Tampa Bay, Texas and Washington ? EVERY TIME I try a build it's these 6 teams. Maybe boot some people out that are hogging the other options?
- The "Frustrated" Sheik
Re: Testing out the new Fav Teams D
I play in one right now , auto 1237 ,they are running but they fill quickly. 8-1 with the Mariners
