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DWAR when out of position


DWAR when out of position

Sorry if this has been discussed, but is there anyway to essentially reduce a players DWAR to 0 when he's out of a primary or secondary position?

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the technical side to PC, but it just seems unlikely that an OF with a + DWAR would maintain this defensive metric if moved to SS or 2B. I see many owners moving guys with very good offensive stats to positions like 2B (with historically very few good options) and trying to "game the system" so to speak.

While they usually make a ton of errors, maintaining a + DWAR does reduce the amount of negativity to doing this.

Not a huge deal, just wondering. Thanks!!

Re: DWAR when out of position

I noticed in one of my leagues that Daryl Strawberry is playing 2nd base. He even robbed my team of a hit. Seems unlikely!

Re: DWAR when out of position

If he has a positive dWar then yes he will technically still rob hits in the sim. But the MAJOR drawback is if it's not his primary position or secondary position (secondary position is still semi-effective but the player's defense becomes greatly diminished in most cases, depending on the position in question), the high amount of errors at a position like 2B makes them a defensive liability, especially with a position with a high number of defensive chances like SS, CF, or 2B. A player who doesn't actually play those positions being actually IN those positions makes them a double edged sword, so to speak

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

Re: DWAR when out of position

If a player is at his secondary position, say a 2B/IF guy who goes to SS
his fielding % will drop by 50 points -so if he has a .985 Fielding % he drops to a .935 Fielding % -

If he were to go to the OF his Fielding % would drop to .885 because he is totally out of position.

Their DWar rating remains the same, the situation I didn't like was I was in a League where someone had Lou Gehrig playing SS -That's total BS because Gehrig threw Left handed - he should have been horribly ineffective at SS but really was not - granted, he made a lot of Errors and didn't save 1 hit at SS - but because he was only like a -0.20 DWar player he didn't turn many outs into hits either.

My whole issue with it was that it was totally unrealistic, I've also seen Aaron Judge at SS with his +1.0 DWar - also bogus THAT guy made a TON of errors though - he had 96 errors - I have no idea what that owner was thinking, how many of those errors did he Throw the Ball away for 2 bases.

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

"he should have been horribly ineffective at SS but really was not - granted, he made a lot of Errors and didn't save 1 hit at SS"

Sooo...you admit he was ineffective, right after saying he wasn't?

"My whole issue with it was that it was totally unrealistic"

We've had this discussion a million times.

Auto Leagues are NOT meant to be totally realistic. (Custom leagues, of course, are a different story, if the participants desire fidelity to baseball norms.)

Babe Ruth and Ted Williams were never in the same batting order. Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson never hoovered up balls on the infield together. Matt Olson never hit 85 home runs.

As far as an owner setting up a lineup, if they want a left-handed shortstop, a centerfielder at shortstop, a second baseman at catcher, a DH/1B in left field, a 5 speed player set to run 100% of the time, or for Mario Mendoza to pinch hit for Barry Bonds - well, that's their affair.

Thankfully, PC gives owners a lot of freedom, instead of funneling them into the One Pure Baseball Way.

Re: DWAR when out of position

Super, I was simply explaining some things to a New Guy, look I already had said my piece on this and it is what it is, but new guys are going to see these kind of things are wonder what is going on.

And BTW - using Lou Gehrig at SS - he SHOULD have been WAY worse than he was, in real life it would have been a disaster, but not so much so in PC.

Plus the fact that he hit 40+ Home runs while batting .330 or more made it a lot less painful than it should have been, which is why the owner did it in the 1st place, to get that extra big bat, not what I would do, and certainly not recommended


Why do so many people take everything so personally? A new guy asked a question, I answered it and even gave further info so they know what they can expect -is that a crime?

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

yeah I remember playing Gehrig at SS - he has a year (I think 1934) where he is listed as 1b/SS. Before DWar it was an overpowered move because he had your typical .995 fielding % for a 1b - so even with the secondary position penalty he was a decent shortstop with a .700 slugging %. Jimmie Foxx was the same 1b/SS and had several 1b/C years, Ty Cobb had an OF/2b year as did Mel Ott, Hal Trosky and a few others. But Gehrig was definitely the most over powered!

Re: DWAR when out of position

MrBubbles, Did you ever see the gloves they used pre 1900?

I'm surprised they did anything more than prevent you from bare handing a hot shot!

If the guys of today ever tried to use them they would lose their minds LOL - add to the fact these " pro Ball Players" did not have the same fitness as today's ballplayers - different time and game, which is why we have Dead Ball Era - it's apples and oranges!

Re: DWAR when out of position

love the chatter, but i'm not exactly a new guy, lol.

it seems we all agree with fielding percent dropping when a player is moved to an off position, so why doesn't it follow, and make sense, that his WAR would drop just the same? i've just always found it strange.

and i understand that none of this is 100% realistic, but i also think guy tries to make it further away from unrealisitc as possible.

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

I agree with the idea that both the DWAR and Fielding% should both drop when a player is out of position. I wonder how hard that would be for the webmaster to implement in his Sim calculations/algorithms.
I'm just starting to understand some of the tricks and tips.
When looking at a player, I assume a high DWAR and low fielding% would cancel each other out in the long run?

Re: DWAR when out of position

"And BTW - using Lou Gehrig at SS - he SHOULD have been WAY worse than he was, in real life it would have been a disaster, but not so much so in PC."

but also....

"granted, he made a lot of Errors and didn't save 1 hit at SS"

I'm just trying to figure out what your definition of "disaster" is.

It seems like owners who try quirky moves like this already pay a high price in return. Yeah, perhaps Gbacci should reduce DWAR when out of position, but it's not like Lou Gehrig performs like Andrelton Simmons (or even an "average" shortstop) when placed at the hot corner.

Re: DWAR when out of position

There was a 3B in 1871, Levi Meyerle (Philadelphia Athletics, a defunct version that folded a few years later...), who, in 26 games and 130 ABs, had a statline of .492/.500/.700 and would be an offensive powerhouse in a considerable number of leagues, but if you even THOUGHT of putting him at 3B, and not DH, you will likely be looked at like a true moron by your fellow PC users. A .648 fielding % is probably the lowest total for at least that long a season I've EVER seen. The point of this tidbit of information: back then, a large number of players didn't even USE gloves. It was actually viewed as laughable for anyone to actually even CONSIDER using them, and players typically were deterred from using them as a result. That is why the fielding stats from back then usually end up being truly horrid numbers to look at when compared to today's totals. In fact, just describing that .648 FLD % just gives me a headache for having to even LOOK at it myself lol

Re: DWAR when out of position

DWAR is definitely adjusted I just don’t remember exactly when Guy said it happens and by what amount.

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

Uh...I totally noticed Levi's fielding % when perusing players.

TOTALLY. As in, not at all.

Thanks to skooler for highlighting this travesty of a fielder. If I hadn't read this, I'd probably be putting him in the infield if I ever drafted him, and then wondering why the sim was overheating trying to handle his multitude of errors.

Re: DWAR when out of position

Many if not all, 1800's players need to have their FLD% closely examined. Below .900 is commonplace.

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

yankeebb is right - I've noticed a definate change in hits robbed, especially in CF. Have to adjust my equation for player value again.

- The Sheik

Re: DWAR when out of position

Super do I detect a hint of sarcasm in there? Hard to tell......... πŸ€”πŸ˜πŸ˜…πŸ˜‚πŸ€£

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

No, I truly didn't realize his fielding % was that atrocious!

You've taught me the error of my ways. No longer will I gloss over that number.

Man, I shudder to think what would've happened if I'd selected Levi before reading your post....

Anyone with a sandbox want to sim a season and see how many errors he'd commit? It would probably be in the hundreds!

Re: DWAR when out of position

Super, you're kinda scaring me... I really can't tell if that's sarcasm or not... It's driving me nuts trying to figure out whether it is, but I can't for the life of me figure out WHY I feel the need to know for sure! Lol πŸ˜…πŸ˜…πŸ˜…πŸ˜…πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Re: DWAR when out of position

Hmm, hey Super, quick question, since you're also in Zeedood's Pine Tar Brawl Room league, does that mean you are genuinely saying you really didn't notice his FLD %? I was unaware that that detail may be the answer I was looking for... Sorry though, don't mind my malfunctioning brain (or lack thereof I should say lol), working my a** off at my local grocery store chain, the biggest non-walmart name in my area, things have naturally been hectic, and as a result I can't really think straight half the time...

Re: Re: DWAR when out of position

Skooler, I promise I'm being serious!

Truly....

Genuinely....

100%....

No BS....

Serious!

Yes, we're both in Pine Tar Brawl Room, so I'd noticed Levi's awesome batting stats when I was perusing the players. But I did NOT (I repeat DID NOT!!!!) notice his fielding % - not till your post. I was stunned (and embarrassed) when I realized how awful he was!

I don't know how else to persuade you. I mean, maybe I can swear on the Flibber?!

On another note, does your store have TP? I'm getting low, and none seems to be available within a 50 mile radius. Help me, I beg you! I don't want to use leaves and pine cones on my bum!

Re: DWAR when out of position

Yeah for the time being (VERY limited though bud lol). But you probably gotta live at least within a 10-25 mile radius to really be worth the trip (even our 2 nearest Walmarts are struggling to keep things like tp in stock, who would've pictured that happening? Go figure πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚)