Value Wins !

I undertsand that Skenes had lights out metrics, but at one point, winning is the main objective in baseball.

A better balance of winning and metrics shoud be considered for the Cy Young awards.

giving the award to a pitche rwith 10 wins, and a .500 W PCT makes no sense.

@plpl512 A pitcher has very little control over wins and losses. Skenes could have left several starts with lead only for the bullpen to blow it. Also, there have been pitchers with high ERAs that have many wins due to playing on a team that provides great run support. Starting wise, I do not think there is a better pitcher in the N.L.

Felix Hernandez won the CY in 2010 with a 13-12 record 2.27 ERA and 232 strikeouts! Hard to say those stats aren’t good enough to win the award only because he didn’t have more wins.

Pitchers can do their jobs and not get wins because their team and offense doesn’t give them some run support…they shouldn’t lose out on an individual award because the team failed to do their job more times than they helped

Hernandez had a better year in 2014 where he won more but still lost the CY

Which 1987 pitcher would you rather have on your roster?
89 IP, 79 hits, 28 BB, 74 SO, 2.83 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 5 Wins, 40 Saves
237 IP, 223 hits, 106 BB, 174 SO, 3.68 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, 18 Wins
211 IP, 154 hits, 87 BB, 270 SO, 2.76 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 8 Wins

That's
Steve Bedrosian 1987 Cy Young Award Winner
Rick Sutcliffe 2nd in voting and
Nolan Ryan tied for 5th in voting.

Largely because voters used to (over)value wins and saves.

Yea, that's Ryan for sure.

That’s exactly why PC overvalues wins and saves, because its using a formula that follows voter history. How can anyone say Skenes didn’t deserve it because the Pirates are a bad team. His ERA was UNDER 2.00! Sanchez and Yamamoto were about 2.50. If you prefer WHIP Skenes led that too. And he wasn’t lacking wins because he left games early, it’s because of the offense and bullpen. Sanchez did throw 15 more innings, and had 2 more quality starts. But Skenes was unanimous because his stats dominated not just this season but any recent season.

Skubal only had 13 wins! Are we also arguing Crochet should have won because he had 18?

Baseball as it is played today should make the Cy Young a team award. Best overall pitching staff. I understand why the game has changed. I can even approve intellectually. But I don't have to like it. :)

I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about whether awards should be about value or ability. Ability will reproduce next season, value might not completely because value is part ability, part context, and part luck. But value is what wins ball games.

Here is an example comparing Paul Skenes and Cristopher Sanchez

Skenes had 6 starts where his team scored 6+ runs. He had a 0.98 ERA and went 4-0.
Sanchez had 13 starts where he got 6+ runs and went 7-0 with a 2.88 ERA

Skenes had 13 starts of 3-5 runs. He had a 2.09 ERA and went 6-2
Sanchez had 8 starts of 3-5 runs of support and went 3-1 with a 2.32 ERA

So, Skenes had 19 starts where his team scored 3+ runs and went 10-2, while Sanchez had 21 starts of 3+ runs and went 10-1.

Skenes had 13 starts where his team scored 2 or less and he went 0-8 with a 2.33 ERA. Note- he pitched his worst when his team scored their least and pitched his best when they scored the most. That is probably luck, but it resulted in real losses.

Sanchez had 11 starts where his team scored 2 or less. He went 3-4 with a 2.20 ERA. He pitched his best when the Phillies were at their worst, and he pitched his worst when they were at their best. Again, probably luck, but those are real wins that Sanchez picked up because of it.

This is a common pattern in pitchers greatest seasons.

1988 Hershiser 18-3 with a 2.70 ERA when getting 3+ runs; 5-5 with a 1.61 ERA when getting 2 or less.

1989 Hershiser 15-2 with a 1.78 ERA when getting 3+, 0-13 with a 3.21 when getting 2 or less.

The end result is 23-8 in 1988, a Cy Young and World Series win, vs 15-15 in 1989 and no playoffs.

The timing of your performance matters to winning, and while it would be dumb to have that factor into contracts, it should probably be reflected in awards.