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MVP and Cy Young

MVP and Cy Young

I like the points system for MVP and Cy Young in PC. Could someone use that system to see how PC would rank the players in real MLB 2018? I think the 2018 winners should be DeGrom, Yelich, Snell, Betts.

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Degrom was fantastic this season.
He will never win the Cy Young but he was the best pitcher in baseball all season .

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

deGrom gave up just 10 homers in 217 IP.

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Im pretty sure he will win he ended with a record 27 consecutive starts allowing 3 runs or less

He allowed more than 3 runs 1 time

Im pedros historic season he allowed 6v runs once and 5 runs twice for example

He ended up with a winning record

He will win, scherzer second nola 3rd

Remember felix Hernandez won without wins a few years back

The voters are smarter than they used to be

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

DeGrom HAS to win Cy. Not his fault the Mets couldn't score for him. The guy was unreal.

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Scherzer ends up with more wins (almost double), a better whip, a better k/9, more innings pitched, more K's, better h/9,.. De Grom with a better ERA and only 10Wins...

Winning is still part of the game! And quite the most important stats in baseball...

Even if we can be obsess with some secondary stats... a Win is a Win...

In all sports, you need to allow less run than the opposition, and De Grom fail to do so... he was surely unlucky, but you don't get trophy's for being unlucky...

De Grom wins the ERA Title! That is it...

Pitching with the lead is way different than pitching when you are trailing...

Pitching in meaningless games vs pitching and being under the radar, game in and game out...

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

I agree , I don't think he wins it.
I think he should but don't think the voters will see it that way. He will finish 2nd is my guess.

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

DeGrom pitched NINE games where he gave up 0 or 1 run and didnt get the win (and lost a few of those). No one in their right mind would fault him for that because he's on a bad hitting team. Now, if the problem was he was only going 5-6 innings and getting no decisions because he came out early, that would be on him, but that's not the case. Scherzer had a Cy season but DeGrom is going to win the award, and should. Scherzer had Ks (flashy, but they led to the same WHIP and much worse ERA) and a better offense and bullpen behind him to get more wins. If you believe Scherzer's ERA was higher because his team scored more and he could afford to give up more runs so he did, then I think that's really the only argument.

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Jack Morris comes back up from the grave!

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Yup. No one gets their ass kissed more with that "pitching to the score" nonsense than Jack Morris.

DeGrom is the finest example Brian Kenny-#KillTheWin types could ever hope for in that argument. His season dwarf's Felix's 13-win AL CYA campaign a few years ago.

The numbers have been spat out ad infinitum...DeGrom wasn't just good this year. He was HISTORICALLY good.

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

Not considering Scherzer for a Cy Young with his numbers is absurd... we are far away from Jack Morris here...

As for De Grom being historically Good... It his a great season by De Grom... but by the fact that these guys aren't completing their games anymore, historical has to be put in perspective...

If De Grom would have completed 9 games with 8 shutouts, it would be something else... and he probably would of got more Wins anyway...

He basically throwed couple of little league shutouts of 6 or 7 innings...

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Scherzer had 2 CG. DeGrom had 1. DeGrom had 21 games of 7 or more IP.
Scherzer had 19. Also, EVERYONE is considering Scherzer for the Cy. I think DeGrom should and will finish 1st and Scherzer should and will finish 2nd. That's pretty damn good for both!

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

Lets begin, the argument he wasn't historically good is inaccurate. His Adjusted ERA+, which takes a pitcher's ERA and measures it against his contemporaries' league average, or "how much better than the rest of the league in this particular year was this guy?"

deGrom is tied for 23rd ALL-TIME.

Lets look at his ERA. Since 1969, the year after the famed "Year of the Pitcher", which saw Bob Gibson come away with a microscopic 1.12 ERA, Still the mark to this day...

Do you know how many pitchers finished with a lower ERA over the last almost 50 years? FIVE.

Gooden 1.53 1985
Maddux 1.56 1994
Maddux 1.63 1995
Greinke 1.66 2015
Ryan 1.69 1981
deGrom 1.70 2018

And THREE of those five came in strike years!!

These are just two categories...

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Degrom just won baseball digest pitcher of the year

It was unanimous 15-0

Il bet anybody 100 dollars degrom wins cy young

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

DeGrom should be NL MVP this year. If I had a vote he’d get it, without hesitation.

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

I'm going to suppose that everyone in here is at least north of 30, so let's put in the 18-year old college freshman's prospective.

Someone stated historical context had to be put into place (aka complete games), but I don't understand how that makes sense. Did we place historical context into place when Henry Aaron broke Babe Ruth's record? Did we place historical context into place when Ichiro Suzuki went off for 262 hits in 2004? No, so let's not do that to the guy.

Anyway, and some of this may have been stated by others, Degrom pitched one complete game but had 21 starts of 7.0 innings or more (almost 22 but the Yankees torched him in one start). Scherzer had 2 complete games, but 19 starts of 7 innings or more. Max Scherzer had 4 starts of allowing 4 earned runs or more. DeGrom had ONE. By the way, half of DeGrom's starts had him allow one or less runs. Scherzer had 11. Scherzer won all but three of those starts. DeGrom lost EIGHT, FOUR of them when he allowed nothing to score; the reson why he lost those games (or didn't get a decision) is because the offense became a tranquilized mattress. DeGrom had 4 days of rest between starts 21 times, compared to Scherzer's 19. Scherzer only pitched 3.2 innings more than deGrom--DeGrom had a one inning start and was pulled due to throwing a high amount of pitches a day after coming off the DL--and allowed 18 more runs to score (keep in mind, I'm using Runs, not ER, oh no, we're not even going to consider the butterfingers that was the Mets defense compared to the Nationals).

We got all the historical context out the way? Okay, let's continue.

DeGrom went 10-9, Scherzer went 18-7. Fine. Scherzer struckout MUCH more hitters than deGrom did. Fine. There is a very slight difference between their SO/W ratio. Fine.

In an era where the long ball is popping, deGrom allowed 10 homers. Scherzer allowed 23. deGrom's ERA+ is 216 compared to Scherzer's 168. Max Scherzer has 5.27 runs of runs support, while deGrom has 3.53 runs... According to bbref, with an average team (waaWL%) deGrom has a .745 win percentage. With an average team, Scherzer is .712%.

And if you want to talk about wins again...the Nats aren't in the postseason. The Phillies aren't in the postseason. The Mets aren't in the postseason.

Oh, by the way, did I forget to mention he finished with a 1.70 ERA, best in the National League and 25th best in history (according to Jay). Scherzer has a 2.53. Did I mention he finished with a 1.99 FIP, which combines a pitchers effectiveness in preventing baserunners (BB and HBP), HRs, and striking out hitters, the best in the National League and ranks 61st all time? Max Scherzer has a 2.65...

Need I remind you, this is not the most valauble pitcher award, per say, this is the BEST pitcher award. Nobody is taking away anything from Scherzer and Nola, but from what I laid out in this messaged, it states that deGrom is the best pitcher in the National League.

I rest my case.

Re: MVP and Cy Young

If the Metropolitans would have scored just 2 runs in every deGrom start he would have went 20-6.

Re: MVP and Cy Young

Correct stat is his season is tied for 23rd best all-time in ADJUSTED ERA+. Not ERA.

He's in the 90's among all-time season ERA in the history of baseball.

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

give credit where credit is due. BBFan that was a very coherent, intelligent and put together case you just made. for a met too. impressive

Re: MVP and Cy Young

I agree nice write up Bbfan.
Man have we watch you grow. Best of luck in your studies and a great career ahead I hope for you..

Re: Re: MVP and Cy Young

Degrom won easily, almost unanimous