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Auto Draft Changes
Auto Draft Changes
Now that the auto draft changes have been in place awhile, what are peoples’ thoughts.?
Personally, I don’t like the changes and would love to see them rolled back.
The changes lead to rather boring teams. Totally takes the fun out of the auto leagues, imo.
I think the chance to draft a dream team is incredibly exciting. It rewards the people that log in frequently and try to get to the draft early. Is that a bad thing?
I also would like to see the number of auto leagues people participate in limited a little so you’re not always up against the same people. Do people really need to be in 100 leagues?? It might lead to more bots to fill the draft, but that’s OK if the bots are more competitive.
Just my 2 cents.
Personally, I don’t like the changes and would love to see them rolled back.
The changes lead to rather boring teams. Totally takes the fun out of the auto leagues, imo.
I think the chance to draft a dream team is incredibly exciting. It rewards the people that log in frequently and try to get to the draft early. Is that a bad thing?
I also would like to see the number of auto leagues people participate in limited a little so you’re not always up against the same people. Do people really need to be in 100 leagues?? It might lead to more bots to fill the draft, but that’s OK if the bots are more competitive.
Just my 2 cents.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
I don't know if I have played in one yet, but have a couple soon to start, what differences are you seeing?
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
Main difference I see, is that filler and dynasty are most of the times picking up up to 4-5 catchers, or 3 o4 2ndB,etc...
Often one bot team will rake 3 of the best players at one single position.
And Supp drafts are also now depleted....
On this team there is 9 starting pitchers !!!
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
On this one 4 1B that can only play DH and 3 2B, and only 3 OF...
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
That bot team is depleting the league with 5 potential starters at 2B on their lineup
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
In this league. Filler is dominating despite having a terrible team on paper...
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgTeam..
I absolutely dont see what is the improvment on these bot teams for the users experience !!!
Often one bot team will rake 3 of the best players at one single position.
And Supp drafts are also now depleted....
On this team there is 9 starting pitchers !!!
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
On this one 4 1B that can only play DH and 3 2B, and only 3 OF...
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
That bot team is depleting the league with 5 potential starters at 2B on their lineup
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
In this league. Filler is dominating despite having a terrible team on paper...
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgTeam..
I absolutely dont see what is the improvment on these bot teams for the users experience !!!
Re: Auto Draft Changes
I have drafted in a few also and have noticed that I am offered the same positions and players multiple times. For example, after drafting a 1B in one league, I was offered high ranked 1B for three straight rounds after that. I also am seeing that if a player is offered to be drafted and you don't take them, they are offered to you again and again.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
i agree that the supplemental drafts are pretty depleted. i recently was last man in a league, my team looks awful!! lol. i only had 2 pitchers ranked above 75, fortunately i had first priority and selected an 87 grade starter. but there were only 9 players available with 70+ ratings. i have done a couple others that it was a little better, at least i was able to draft a staff with 1 each from 90,80, 70 60 50 range. i will say the draft was more fun when better talent was available but i have changed my drafting style a bit to grab more speed and defense to help offset my shaky pitching. but overall it is still enjoyable but who doesn't enjoy a high powered team!!
Re: Auto Draft Changes
My main personal gripe with the supplemental draft is that, considering the bot teams are SUPPOSED to be bad most of the time, the fact that they ALWAYS participate in the supplemental draft when they are present (and usually take the best players available since they're almost always near the top of the draft order) feels totally unnecessary to me
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
I dont mind about bots being bad, I care about people enjoying the game !
On that team 5 players for 3 spots... many team could use those 2 players eaten by a bot team !
Frank Thomas, Todd Helton, Prince Fielder, Bradley, Derek Lee
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
On that team 5 players for 3 spots... many team could use those 2 players eaten by a bot team !
Frank Thomas, Todd Helton, Prince Fielder, Bradley, Derek Lee
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
Re: Auto Draft Changes
I think all of the examples @plpl512 gave, those bots drafted while the logic was still being cleaned up... I would wait and look at bots that drafted later, like in June - in those examples, the bots all drafted mid to late May.
Also, bots should start getting dropped to the end of the supplemental draft - this was a change recommended by a few people since the bots now draft better teams. You'll start seeing this with bots that drafted more recently, so it will take some time to show up.
But since this was a new change, it will need to be tweaked I am sure over time.
But as for the original question, (and I am also curious how people feel) keep in mind why part of the change was made - no team should be ending up with Ruth, Bonds, Williams, McGwire before anyone else gets to draft, and that was a common occurrence.
Also, bots should start getting dropped to the end of the supplemental draft - this was a change recommended by a few people since the bots now draft better teams. You'll start seeing this with bots that drafted more recently, so it will take some time to show up.
But since this was a new change, it will need to be tweaked I am sure over time.
But as for the original question, (and I am also curious how people feel) keep in mind why part of the change was made - no team should be ending up with Ruth, Bonds, Williams, McGwire before anyone else gets to draft, and that was a common occurrence.
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
Like plpl, i want people to enjoy the game. I don't mind bots, they are needed given the number of leagues that exist in relation to users who fill league spots. My enjoyment sank when a very small # of users play the same leagues over and over and are first to draft and stack their teams. When I saw one user who had Bonds, Williams, McGwire, Ruth on the same team in multiple ATG leagues, that kills my enjoyment. Anything that alleviates that is a good thing.
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i think there is a better distribution of talent the new way for sure, just need to change my mindset on having a superteam!! just played a team last season that had ohtahni, judge and trout!! he hit over 70 homers with about 10 doubles!!
Re: Auto Draft Changes
actually one thing that would be nice to see is some sort of limit on how much someone can exceed there actual at bats. almost every league i play in has a handful of mvp candidates that put up good numbers in part time/platoon roles. one league i am in john lowenstein is an mvp winner multiple times, including for me!! he hits over 50 homers every year!! kerry carpenter is a monster in any league he is in, rafeal furcal is leading the mvp race in another league and had less than 200 at bats in real life. those type guys are cheat codes to winning, it took me a bit to see why certain teams won so much!! probably tough to adjust this but some of these random guys are better and more valuable than the "stars". just some random thoughts, definately not trying to be negative!! so much goes in to making this site great, hard to perfect every aspect. keep up the great work.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
This is where I may be in the minority…the thrill for me is to get in there early and grab Bonds, Ruth, McGwire. Half the time you still end up getting upset somehow in the World Series. If people are limited with the number of leagues they can enter, everyone will have that chance to cobble together a dream team.
The alternative (the new draft model) is you’re nearly guaranteed a run-of-the mill team. I’m sure many will enjoy this. Just not for me….
The alternative (the new draft model) is you’re nearly guaranteed a run-of-the mill team. I’m sure many will enjoy this. Just not for me….
Re: Auto Draft Changes
Yeah I also like the old set up better. Gave managers the excitement of being able to create a dynamic team that could compete with other top managers in their league. Now it seems more of a “vanilla” approach. Seems if you do the work and put in the effort it should work in your favor. Also the supplemental drafts are not very inspiring.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
Gbacci, any chance you can do a vote on new auto leagues draft versus old and revert back if prior is more favorable?
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It would seem a knee jerk reaction to simply restoring Auto Draft Bots to their previous lousy condition without possibly tweaking the new draft algorithm in my opinion, there was a pretty vocal crowd saying BOT Teams stunk before, now it seems the complaint is " I can no longer get a monster? I might have to work at this a bit, lets go back to the old way"
I agree on drafting multiple studs at the same position, and correcting THAT logic, and I also have noticed that the SIM does keep offering a same player and THAT is annoying, I sometimes only get offered a pick at say 2B once, I see 6 2B, pick one, never see another,
I agree on drafting multiple studs at the same position, and correcting THAT logic, and I also have noticed that the SIM does keep offering a same player and THAT is annoying, I sometimes only get offered a pick at say 2B once, I see 6 2B, pick one, never see another,
Re: Auto Draft Changes
@dgeorgi to your point, the idea would be that the better managers are also going to be more challenged, so it shouldn't be that you can't compete with them... if that turns out to be the case in the long run, I'd want to hear more about it.
@QWERTY00 I would want to wait at least a month before a poll because people are really confused right now by the old bot logic - this will get slightly better once bots are dropped to the bottom of the supplemental draft.
One question I would have for D & Q - would you guys rather be in smaller leagues and have more of a chance to get a killer team? The only way I see the "killer team" logic being remotely fair is if every team had a chance, and that would probably mean something more like 6-team auto leagues, not 12-team leagues. Every time I suggested smaller leagues the vast majority of people say no.
Although honestly, I am still not sure many people want to play in a league where one team gets all the best power hitters, no matter how many teams are in the league. That was never the spirit of the Quick Draft, but the logic change around 2020 resulted in this so we've had five years of a vastly unfair Quick Draft that most people I heard from truly hated.
I've had some people who are the "regular winners" reach out to me and say, "I hate the change but I understand why you had to make it and I'm up for the challenge." Now, maybe we're going to silently lose those players over time if they can't dominate like they used to, I don't know.
@QWERTY00 I would want to wait at least a month before a poll because people are really confused right now by the old bot logic - this will get slightly better once bots are dropped to the bottom of the supplemental draft.
One question I would have for D & Q - would you guys rather be in smaller leagues and have more of a chance to get a killer team? The only way I see the "killer team" logic being remotely fair is if every team had a chance, and that would probably mean something more like 6-team auto leagues, not 12-team leagues. Every time I suggested smaller leagues the vast majority of people say no.
Although honestly, I am still not sure many people want to play in a league where one team gets all the best power hitters, no matter how many teams are in the league. That was never the spirit of the Quick Draft, but the logic change around 2020 resulted in this so we've had five years of a vastly unfair Quick Draft that most people I heard from truly hated.
I've had some people who are the "regular winners" reach out to me and say, "I hate the change but I understand why you had to make it and I'm up for the challenge." Now, maybe we're going to silently lose those players over time if they can't dominate like they used to, I don't know.
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
"I DON'T hate the change and I understand why you had to make it and I'm TOTALLY up for the challenge."😎😎😎
- The Sheik
- The Sheik
Re: Auto Draft Changes
Most likely there isn’t a solution that suits everyone.
Please, please don’t take this as a shot at this site (it’s such a wonderful site overall)…but what kept me coming back was the excitement of the All-Time quick drafts and that thrill of getting the perfect draft class….then chasing team records.
The way the draft is now, the All-Time league isn’t so interesting. So, you’ve lost me as a user.
As a software exec, I really respect how badass this site is. The only reason I’m calling out my opinion is so that you’ll better understand what’s going on should All-Time leagues participation tail off. And, if it improves, I’ll be psyched for this great site that gives so many users joy.
Please, please don’t take this as a shot at this site (it’s such a wonderful site overall)…but what kept me coming back was the excitement of the All-Time quick drafts and that thrill of getting the perfect draft class….then chasing team records.
The way the draft is now, the All-Time league isn’t so interesting. So, you’ve lost me as a user.
As a software exec, I really respect how badass this site is. The only reason I’m calling out my opinion is so that you’ll better understand what’s going on should All-Time leagues participation tail off. And, if it improves, I’ll be psyched for this great site that gives so many users joy.
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
Thanks @QWERTY00 I appreciate the explanation, openness and honesty.
Sadly, some changes over the years have resulted in user loss. I often tell what has become my favorite story (or least favorite?) that someone left when we condensed the baseball divisions from three to two (and we're down to one, which I think the vast majority agrees is better and more fair for auto leagues). So you're right, it's hard to please everyone, and I certainly can understand if the joy was jumping into ATG and ending up with a power team why you're signing off. New people who join the site won't even know that was an option and would probably say "why would that ever have been the case?" as it's a really unfair situation for the other teams in the league. I hope Pennantchase can offer something someday that brings you back.
Sadly, some changes over the years have resulted in user loss. I often tell what has become my favorite story (or least favorite?) that someone left when we condensed the baseball divisions from three to two (and we're down to one, which I think the vast majority agrees is better and more fair for auto leagues). So you're right, it's hard to please everyone, and I certainly can understand if the joy was jumping into ATG and ending up with a power team why you're signing off. New people who join the site won't even know that was an option and would probably say "why would that ever have been the case?" as it's a really unfair situation for the other teams in the league. I hope Pennantchase can offer something someday that brings you back.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
I've never used the 'Sandbox League' option, but wouldn't that be a way for an owner to set up a league that allows him to draft a team that is all but guaranteed to outperform all others merely by virtue of that owner/commissioner being first in line with the 'cream skimmer'?
For years I was as much about exploiting the 'first come, first served' strategy in Quick Draft Autoleagues as anyone. Then I came to realize that, like using 'cheat codes' or other grey area ploys on other gaming sites, there's a point where one needs to weigh ego-gratification-at-any-cost vs. the value of good sportsmanship and supporting the notion that everyone, especially newcomers, should feel they have a fair chance to play these games on level playing fields with the understanding that their strategic chops (and winning percentages) will improve as they ride out the learning curve... and not because along the way they've figured out PED-equivalent ways to gain an edge at everyone else's expense.
I'm all for these new changes and ongoing efforts to evolve games in response to what always feels like a majority consensus gleaned from user feedback. Granted, it's usually a little off-putting to have to adapt to new ways and rethink entrenched strategies, but if seen as a challenge well-worth undertaking, hopefully far more folks will continue to stick around as opposed to those who choose to take their ball and go home...
For years I was as much about exploiting the 'first come, first served' strategy in Quick Draft Autoleagues as anyone. Then I came to realize that, like using 'cheat codes' or other grey area ploys on other gaming sites, there's a point where one needs to weigh ego-gratification-at-any-cost vs. the value of good sportsmanship and supporting the notion that everyone, especially newcomers, should feel they have a fair chance to play these games on level playing fields with the understanding that their strategic chops (and winning percentages) will improve as they ride out the learning curve... and not because along the way they've figured out PED-equivalent ways to gain an edge at everyone else's expense.
I'm all for these new changes and ongoing efforts to evolve games in response to what always feels like a majority consensus gleaned from user feedback. Granted, it's usually a little off-putting to have to adapt to new ways and rethink entrenched strategies, but if seen as a challenge well-worth undertaking, hopefully far more folks will continue to stick around as opposed to those who choose to take their ball and go home...
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
Just finished drafting Auto League 62 - Results of the new Bot draft logic does seem significant, albeit, more so on the Position player pool, Bot pitching does still appear inferior to real owner rosters, but, the Supplemental Draft is really thin, every team should get 1 good player, then, meh,
It will be interesting
It will be interesting
Re: Auto Draft Changes
Had to come back from down 3-2 to win a ring vs a bot team. I don't think I've ever faced one in the champ round. https://www.pennantchase.com/league..
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
I like better bots. I would rather play all humans but if bots are necessary I like that they are competitive.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
I am keeping an eye on the rosters and will work in some tweaks - there still some odd things happening, like I just saw a bot team draft 4 catchers but only 3 OF. Also, I can see what I can do about not having them scoop up so many offensive players - in many cases it's fine but sometimes they get a few too many good hitters.
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
Is the logic the same for Bot's in quick draft and daily draft leagues? Also, is the logic the same if a human forgets to rank (I might be guilty of that sometimes)? I just had it happen and the computer took two 3B in a row for me in the second and third round.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
supplemental drafts are very thin now, just drafted as last person in, really only about 6-8 guys that are decent(above 70 ranking) otherwise you are just looking at defense/speed or players you like. i enjoyed the previous set uo more, but i understand the need to upgrade, just kind of went from 1 extreme to another
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
I hear what you are saying, but, and this isn't a wish for the old days.
When I first joined DWar was just being rolled out, so that's how long I have been playing and, there were zero BOTS, AND far fewer new owners. I had a LOT to learn and there are guys that are phenomenal at this game, I tip my hat to them, and every once in a while, I would actually Win, those wins felt better.
Covid blew up the numbers a LOT and BOTs became required, for me, the Bots were like STEALING.
Bots weakness diluted that " I WON" feeling for me compared to that.
Better competition means more attention to detail, looking at the rosters of people who beat you and seeing guys you routinely overlook that also routinely overperform but not so you would notice.
When I first joined DWar was just being rolled out, so that's how long I have been playing and, there were zero BOTS, AND far fewer new owners. I had a LOT to learn and there are guys that are phenomenal at this game, I tip my hat to them, and every once in a while, I would actually Win, those wins felt better.
Covid blew up the numbers a LOT and BOTs became required, for me, the Bots were like STEALING.
Bots weakness diluted that " I WON" feeling for me compared to that.
Better competition means more attention to detail, looking at the rosters of people who beat you and seeing guys you routinely overlook that also routinely overperform but not so you would notice.
Re: Auto Draft Changes
@wduncan Daily Draft logic is totally different. Two 3B in a row sounds like an odd thing, I will have to look into that. Could have just been odd luck that 3B was where the best players were at those rounds, but that logic could probably use a refresh as well, as it's not all that sophisticated.
Re: Re: Auto Draft Changes
Overall, I'm happy with the changes and feel that the playing field is being leveled somewhat. There should be an advantage to staying in leagues, and there still is, but not to the extent that it was. It's hard (especially in rounds 2 & 3) to even get quality BENCH players in the Supplementals !! If you play these Autos frequently, and know all the ins and outs of which players can be changed to more advantageous seasons, you can manage to put together competitive teams - even if you enter as the 12th Man.
- The Sheik
- The Sheik
Re: Auto Draft Changes
Good points @sheikyerboudi - people forget that when humans occupied the 12 teams, this is what the Supplemental Draft looked like, we've just gotten spoiled by bad bot teams. The Supplemental Draft was always meant to be more of a place where you could grab maybe one more strong player and then role players or depth. That said, I do think a few more decent players should be around as I improve the initial bot draft logic - in some cases the bot teams were definitely getting too many good players.
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