Back to Boards

Biggest Hall Snub ?


Biggest Hall Snub ?

Since it's just about a little past the 1/3 pole I'd like to ask that same old ? for this time of year. What player do you think is the biggest hof snub ? My vote is former Yankee catcher Thurman Munson. First of all , ive always hated the yanks but as a baseball fan i admire their players. Thurman's life was cut short by an accident at the age of 32 , however he put up amazing numbers while he played. .292 avg 113 hr 701 rbi. ROY award , 7 time all star , 3 gold gloves , 2 world series rings , .357 postseason avg. Koufax and puckett were given passes for a carreer cut short , TM deserves a plaque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq7..

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Kind of an easy question ... Barry Bonds

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

For me, it's always been Dale Murphy. Fantastic power hitter in a pitcher dominated era and one of the very few players with 2 MVPs not in Cooperstown.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Easy - Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Lefty O’ Doul

The father of Japanese Professional baseball.

And as a player still is tied for the national league record in hits for a season.

The continual omission of him into the hall as a “contributor” is baffling to say the least.

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Bonds and Clemens have to deal with the whole Steroid thing, not saying I agree with that but its a definite factor in their exclusion

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Bonds and Clemens not only have to deal with the Steroid thing - but how they were monumental Jackasses to the very people (sportswriters) who vote for the HOF.

- The Sheik

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Yes all that is well known and been debated. Doesn't change the stats. I hear what you are saying, but that was the era they were in. Other eras had amphetamines and coke. Trash cans and in game video in other eras. Juiced balls and spit balls. Somehow steroids is the scarlet letter of them all.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Keith Hernandez. Best fielding first baseman in the history of the game. 11 straight gold glove awards, great clutch hitter and 1979 NL MVP.

Bonds and Clemens don’t belong. Both damaged the integrity of the game.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Lou Whitaker

Him and Ryne Sandberg were the best 2nd base without competition when they played for couple of decades... Sandberg WAR 68, Lou Whitaker WAR 75.... says it all...

Roberto Alomar WAR 67
Craig Biggio WAR 65

Even the vet comitee are too much of dinosaurs to recognize the sabermetric beast Lou Whitaker was...

Whitaker should be in there no doubt...

He was a great leader, if I remeber he was also a class act... just played the game the right way, and was the best at his position for such a long period... he checks all the boxes...

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Now you know I am going to once again bang the trash can, er drum, for Steve Garvey

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

You know why Steve isn't in the hall , it's because he messed around with the writers wives and girlfriends. Another great who was a winner everywhere he went.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Among starting pitchers anyway, it's Curt Schilling.. No link to PEDs, or any other form of cheating, despite playing in a PED era and therefore being at a disadvantage against his juiced up competitors. Highest WAR of any HOF-eligible SP not in the HOF.

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Garvey has a lower OPS than any first baseman currently in the HOF. His career slugging is higher than only Jake Beckley and Frank Chance. I never saw Garvey in his prime and only vaguely remember him, but his stats don't back up being in the HOF.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Still got time and not the biggest snub yet, but the greatest defensive centerfielder ever who also has well over 400 home runs needs more love.

Come join the Andruw Jones train, plenty of seats available.

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Andruw Jones is a funny one. His resume says YES, but I watched him play his entire career and he never felt like a Hall of Famer.

But I felt the exact same way about Mike Mussina.

Tough to get in when your credentials are primarily defensive. To my knowledge, Ozzie Smith has been the only one to do it, and Jones was a MUCH better hitter than Smith. He’s an interesting case.

I’m also not sure that he is the consensus greatest ever. I don’t think anyone would argue his name doesn’t belong on the list, but there have been a lot of great ones. And those old stadiums had GIANT centerfields.

I’ll buy a ticket. Just put me in the back.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

"Other eras had amphetamines and coke" Having done some rather questionable things in the 60's and 70's, I can state unequivocally that neither of those drugs are "performance enhancing".

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

I put Andruw Jones on here every time the question is asked, I decided to let someone else do it this time!

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Oh contraire Mon Fraire

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

It’s such a fun question because it’s so subjective. I think there’s a place in Cooperstown for guys that managed to stay healthy long enough and play at a high enough level to accumulate great numbers (Thome, Biggio), even if they didn’t win a lot of awards,

But…

If you have multiple MVPs (or Cy Youngs), there has to be a real good reason your NOT in.

I think Tim Lincecum and Johan Santana deserve more respect too. Both careers shortened by injury, both absolutely dominant for a stretch of several years.



Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Ace, Schilling is a good one. Won on good teams, won on bad teams, has perhaps the most iconic game of that era (bloody sock game), won in the post season, had longevity as well. His political views and not getting along with the media who ultimately decide his fate has cost him. That is a shame...

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Agree with you there especially when you look at some of the players like cap anson and others who were anti integration or guys like ty cobb who of course has the numbers but by all accounts was a horrible human being.

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Back in his era, there was Smoltz, Maddux ,Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez,Clemens, and clearly Schilling was the other dominant pitcher that could stay toe to toe with these guys in any game...

Not only the bloody sock game, but also game 7 DBacks vs Yanks was another start for the ages...


Him being snub is a disgrace... because he was for me way more dominant than Mussina... so there is absolutely no reason for Mussina to be in if Schilling is not...

I absolutely don't share his political views,etc... but I have to admit he was the exact definition of a horse on the mound....

So who cares about politics, this is baseball and he should be in...

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Andruw Jones even with the last 3 years when he was terrible. he definitely deserves to be in the Hall of fame, even without his 434 home runs . He was the best center fielder of his era and maybe of all-time. WAR of 62.7.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

To me, IMHO, Schilling would be a candidate for the Hall of Very Good. It's kind of telling that he doesn't have one single season that you could use in PC's All Time Greats. David Freese was an incredible World Series performer, but I don't think he'll be in the Hall. I guess what I'm saying is that Schilling is marginal and didn't help himself with his comments about writers.

- The Sheik

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

There are different reasons a guy can be in the HOF. Bill James makes a distinction between peak value and career value. With Schilling, you have to look at the body of work (career value). To the extent that it can be boiled down to one metric, WAR is the most appropriate one, and the one that most seem to use.

Based on WAR, Schilling is not Hall of Very Good, he is unequivocal Hall of Fame. The only SP ahead him in WAR not in the HOF is Clemens, who is known to have cheated. Schilling is not borderline; he's a slam dunk case.

For perspective, Jack Morris was a borderline case for many years, with strong arguments on both sides. Morris is in the HOF. Morris also doesn't have any single season that puts him among PC all-time greats. Morris is #146 all-time in WAR. Schilling is #26.

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Schilling is also 11-2, 0.986 whip, 2.23 ERA in the postseason, with already stated multiple iconic performances on the biggest stage. I personally never liked him, but I can put that aside and say he deserves to be in.

Re: Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

from proven facts, Schilling was nothing but marginal, he was a horse, a leader. the guy you would give the ball without having doubts in any game 7 of the World Series...even more than Maddux, who was very good vs lesser opposition, vs big opposition : Schiiling would step up... Maddux would crumble...

Re: Biggest Hall Snub ?

Maddux pitched well once he got to the World Series, it was NLCS and NLDS where he had his biggest woes...