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Stat of the year


Stat of the year

Jacob DeGrom has 5 rbi for the season , but only 4 er !!!

Re: Stat of the year

that's crazy- put simply, if JDG's career ended right this minute, he's already a first-ballot Hall of Famer

perhaps the most dominant pitcher since Bob Gibson

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The sad thing is , how many wins has the Met's inept offense cost him over the years ?

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I was curious so I went on bbref and decided to look at Degrom's entire carreer. I wondered how many times he went at least 6 innings , allowed2 er or less and did not get the win. 63 times !!! Reminds me of Felix Hernandez who had the same bad luck with the Mariners. The win totals won't matter as another poster said , DeGrom will be a HOF er easily. He has 193 carreer starts so thats roughly 1/3 that this has happened.

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This is exactly why wins for a pitcher is flawed as a stat. Of course wins matter, so before someone comes on and says, "you play to win, it is the only stat that matters", of course team wins matter, but the stat itself does not tell you a lot about the pitcher. Innings eaters that go 6-7 innings but give up 4+ runs each start and have a great offense behind them rack up wins due to run support, but DeGrom, and many others, toil away on a terrible team and their win totals suffer due to that.

Hopefully the tendonitis doesn't ruin his season.

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Prime example Jack Morris and he's in the HOF. DeGrom most dominant I,ve seen since Randy Johnson when he was on but he had games where he was wild , Gibson 68 , Koufax he's pitching that good.

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Jacob DeGrom is not on the same planet than Jack Morris when the word workhorse is being put on the table....

I may sound too old school here...

Not saying Jacob deGrom numbers are not incredible... but unfortunately he is not a workhorse... and it is costing him and his team many wins...

Is there any stats that can translate the word workhorse?

The main goal is to win... jacob DeGrom is not throwing enough innings, bottom line, so he doesn't cumulate a fair amount of wins vs the beautiful stats he is putting on the table...

How about winning baseball games instead of dressing the nicest possible stats???

Maybe some of the starters may look at downsizing their personal stats and give more innings to their teams, so It can translate in more wins for their teams....


As long as these nowaday princess can eat 2 table spoon of spider tact a day... none of them are on the same planet than the Jack Morris and co. These guys were work horses... there was value attributed to guys who would eat and throw a lot of innings... and also winning ball games...

How would you be able to calculate Jack Morris forkball's spin rate anyway????


Re: Stat of the year

Plpl has a valid point regarding the term "workhorse". If you assume that deGrom ends the season with 30 starts (he currently has 10, and we're about a 3rd of the way into the season, so I think 30 is a fair estimate), using his current pace, he'd have only 3 complete games for the season by the time the regular season ends (currently only one out of his 10 starts was a CG thus far)

Meanwhile, using Jack Morris alone here, he had 175 CGs over the course of his entire career, including a whopping 7 straight years of double digit CGs between 1985 and 1991, plus another 4 seasons matching the feat as well between 1980 and 1983 (and his career high was 20 CGs in '83)

Not trying to downgrade what deGrom has done, far from it in fact. But if we're using the term "workhorse" in the traditional baseball sense, then as good as deGrom is, he technically doesn't truly qualify as a workhorse

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well I think you have to adjust for the period when talking about a "workhorse". Nobody says Jack Morris wasn't a workhorse because he didn't throw 400 innings and 44 complete games a season like Joe McGinnity used to.

Different times
Look at the 2019 Dodgers - 106 wins, team ERA of 3.37 and their top innings guy hit 182. Teams don't ask guys to go longer at the expense of being less effective. They don't need it because they've got a stable of guys that are just as good for short periods.

So in the context of modern baseball, deGrom is certainly a workhorse (3 straight 200+ inning seasons). And I'm sure 30 years from now, we'll be talking about these starters that only pitch every 7th day for 4 innings (and throw 110) and how they're not workhorses like we used to see in the 20's :)

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Jack Morris and the 84 tigers are one of my fave teams of all time , never said Jack wasnt a hall of famer. To quote someone from another sport , " hello , you play to win the game " In baseball you win by scoring more runs than the other team , Degrom, career era 2.50 , morris 3.90 almost a run and a half more just saying... different eras different standards of greatness. joe namath had more ints than tds but hes a hall of famer but a guy like jamies winston is considered a bust. great thing about sports you can argue all day long but unless doc brown is real we'll never really know. I would like to add this ,who would you rather have here on pc a 1.02 whip or a 1.29 whip that's degrom and morris carreer avg. 1.29 don't make it in any league ive been in.

Re: Stat of the year

Unfortunately deGrom's career doesn't reach the minimum years to make the hall of fame, no matter how brilliant he has been. His career is too close to Johan Santana's, dominant but (as of yet) not sustained for enough years.
Even though Morris was despicable as a person and his numbers don't match up with other HOFers, there is something to be said for the ace qualities he showed for over a decade. He got the ball on opening day and game 1 in the playoffs even when he switched teams and managers. Sparky was known for yanking his starters early but gave Morris a longer leash. I was rooting for the Braves in '91 (and '92) and hated to see that SOB on the mound in his late 30s still representing the definition of an ace. Sometimes the anecdotal stories supersede the stats.

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Possibly the most interesting thing about DeGrom is his evolution as a baseball player. Nearly wasn't even a pitcher. Started college career as a shortstop.

https://gohatters.com/honors/hall-o..

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I'll also add that comparing players from different eras is really interesting, such as the DeGrom v Morris debate. This is why I love baseball sims such as Pennant Chase. Baseball changes over time, it seems very incremental, but over the many decades the game is quite different. Comparing Honus Wagner to ARod is nearly impossible, but fun to do. Cobb v Ruth v Hank Aaron v Griffey. All very different players, all amazingly great.

Another example, though not of as great of players, but to the point of evolution of the game....Vince Coleman in his prime against someone like Javy Baez. Both very very different players. Both instrumental in championship caliber teams. I grew up a Cubs fan in the 80s, and I hated the Cards and Vince with his speed impacted games in a huge way. Today, he probably would never be a full-time player. Not saying that's good or bad or right or wrong. The game has changed and is always changing.

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In his prime ,Vince was an intregal part of an always contending Cardinals team , yet here on pc he suffers due to low ops . The 1980's Cards were routinely at the bottom in homers but always in contention