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Hall Of Fame


Hall Of Fame

Congrats to Scott Rolen , but I really wonder what Billy Wagner has to do to get more love. Pitched in the steroid era and was undersized to boot. Andrew Jones 10 st gold gloves ignored too. I think mlb just has to admit they looked the other way when it comes to that era and move on. For 50 plus years they excluded players based solely on the color of their skin but have righted that wrong somewhat. Put an asterisk if you will but isnt the hall for fans ?

Re: Hall Of Fame

Forgot Todd Helton

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They will always hold the fact that he played at coors field against him.

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Todd Helton is very deserving. It is not his fault that he was on a Colorado team. Nobody ever suggested that he was a steroids guy. If a guy like Tony Gwynn played in Coors he arguably could have had lesser stats.
Helton has honestly earned stats. Same as the Ralph Kiner career.

Personally I don’t believe that Andru Jones is a HOF player. He did not have that many outstanding hitting seasons and not much of OBP for an outfielder.
The defense is obviously outstanding but he doesn’t have the O stats that an OF or 1B needs to have.

One might say but what about Brooks Robinson and I will point out that he was a3B. I believe that Rolan was the 9th 3B in the HOF. It might have been 14. I think it was 9. Rolen was the best or second best 3B in his generation and definitely in the top 5 off the top of my head in hitting 3B. He was multi dimensional like Schmidt but had great speed as well. And he was the star of a winning World Series to boot.
He was a no brainer.

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Are you saying 3B requires more skill than CF? That's certainly not the case. Great centerfielders are done by age 30 and shift to a corner as they age and lose range. Great shortstops also shift to the corner (3B) as they age and lose range. Subpar defenders can hide at 3B. Can't do that in center. It's important to recognize centerfielders, and not generalize them as outfielders.

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I never really compared defense CF vs 3B. I did not think about that. But it is true that superstar fielding at 3B is rare. That’s a fact Jack. ):
I do think that A Jones richly serves strong consideration. He is great enough to be discussed. It is very reasonable to think he should be in the HOF.
Richie Ashburn in his time was the third best Centerfielder but he had Mays and Snyder ahead of him.
I think he still got a few gold gloves. He retired with almost 2900 hits and reliable to be one of the best lead off players of his era.
It took a long time for him to get in. He had more great seasons then Jones. It was only his slugging issue that kept him out.so it was hitting.

He may yet get in and if he does I would not complain.

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162 game average

M. Rivera : whip: 1,00 / h9: 7,0 / bb9: 2,0 / k9: 8,2 / sv 39 / era 2,21
B. Wagner : whip 1,00 / h9: 6,0 / bb9: 3,0 / k9: 11,9 / sv 34/ era 2,31
T. Hoffman : whip 1,05 / h9: 7,0 / bb9: 2,5 / k9: 9.0/ sv 39/era 2,87

Wagner stats line in is final season is out of this world
whip 0,86 / h9: 4,9 / bb9: 2,9 / k9: 13,5 / sv 37/ era 1,43

these numbers should speak for themsleves...

Wagner is the very best lefhanded reliever to ever play the game...
and his stats are as great if not better than Rivera and Hoffman...

he was also as durable...

complete non-sense that the voting dinosaurs didn't vote him in is 1st year of eligibility....

Wagner , was well ahead of his time... he is a lot more the poster boy for what a nowaday reliever looks like in 2023...

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He had 8 hall of fame seasons. I would vote for him.
Relievers do not get the credit they deserve.

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This was Wagners 8th year on the ballot . he only has 2 chances left.

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Helton was a monster at coors. But he did hit .287 on the road with an 855 OPS

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I don’t know if there is anything to this but maybe when you have 81 home games at Coors you need to adjust to regular air pressure or whatever it is that makes Coors so offensive.requires some adjustment when Rockies play at other stadiums.

I remember that there was a problem when other teams had to play at I think Denver. Visiting teams would get out of breath.

There are other parks that favor pitchers or parks that help singles hitters and some favor LH and others RH hitters.

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The only thing that home teams have an advantage over the road team is that they get to bat last. The bases are still 90 feet apart , it's still 60 feet 6 inches to home plate. Whatever advantage there is for home runs or the ball carrying is available to both teams. How about we quit bringing up the whole coors field thing. You play the team in front of you and deal with it. , Todd Helton was great , Jeff kent was great. Every team has the same situation except for last at bat. And saying that Tony Gwynn would have had leser stats if he played at coors makes no sense and makes me wonder if you ever saw him play, he would have been a great hitter at Yosemite park, highest batting avg of any player who started his career after 1940. Ted williams debuted in 1939

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Jones has a higher career OBP , SLUG and OPS than Andre Dawson.

What was that about Jones not having the “OBP” of an outfielder?

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Andre Dawson started in 1977 when it was more of a pitchers era. he still had over 2700 hits 438 homers and over 300 SBs he played a lot longer so that took down his ops and slg.i think when a player plays longer it gives them more of a chance for the hall of fame.

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EVERY hitter hits better at home than on the road, well except for Stan Musial but still here is a small sample size
home/road
Babe Ruth .346/.338
Ted Williams .361/.328
Aaron Judge .301/.267
the outlier
Stan Musial .326/.326

Helton was a bit more extreme due to the park factors of Colorado but still his road ops would rank about 160th all time ahead of such Hall of Fame players as
Eddie Murray
Carl Yasztremski
Reggie Jackson
Gil Hodges
Gabby Hartnett
Joe Cronin
Al Kaline
George Brett
Scott Rolen
Jim Rice
and others

As For Tony Gwynn hitting worse in Coors really dude? The stadium he played in SD was crap for hitting while Denver is the hitters wet dream

For the record Tony Gwynn
Mile High Stadium 5g .389/.478/.667
Coors Field 24g .353/.400/.482

He would have been just fine

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I looked at the AJ stats and I still think he is borderline.
If he was a average fielder he would not be in the question.
He is screwed because of the juicing. In his era there were just too many players with eye popping stats.
I don’t think that anyone thinks he juiced.
This is one of reasons most haters of the steroid cheaters would never want them in the HOF.

I do think he is borderline. Which is a great compliment to his career.