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ATG - Frank Thomas bad start


ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Frank Thomas is 0-33 to start the season!

https://www.pennantchase.com/lgPlay..

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Not very realistic is it? It's hard to imagine a player doing that in real life, particularly one like Frank Thomas. Now, someone will come along and post an example of a .199 lifetime hitter having a similar streak, not understanding how comparisons work.

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

J-Undergroud - If you're going for realistic with 1994 Frank Thomas - then fire up a league with the 30 teams from 1994.

His numbers are going to be different when he faces the numbers of the very best seasons of Pedro, Koufax, Verlander, etc. every at bat. And that's statistically speaking very realistic.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

0-33 is very realistic?

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

NO- But the fact that he is facing the best of the best every game will result in a very different type outcome than what he usually produces IS very realistic -

0-33 is for sure an outlier, but much more understandable in that format.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

He is a .250 hitter in ATG, which is right on track with his eOBP of .380, with 11 points of that due to walks. So you'd expect his AVG to be 11 points off his .353...

So that means he has essentially a 25% chance to get a hit in ATGs. The dice has rolled in that other 75% all 33 at bats for him so far.

Realistic? Considering this is probably the only ATG he is currently 0-for-33 in, and considering he's facing the absolute best pitching seasons of all time, I would say that could happen. It is possible for anyone to go for 0 for 33 in an ATG.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

And J-Underground - just to be sure, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything like that. I just think its a funny word to use - realistic. Ty Cobb and Frank Thomas playing on the same field isn't very realistic.

And I think that's where people sometimes get frustrated - they've seen a great player play and then they might not be very good in this stats based game. But it's just 100% stats and when everyone is great in a league, everyone can't be great :)

But yes, as SCM said it's a statistical outlier - I wouldn't call it realistic or unrealistic, just an interesting outlier. And we can see that overall - he's usually a pretty productive player even in that league of greats.

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

FWIW, I just thought it was an interesting anomaly. He normally performs pretty well, just as bad start. At least he is only a few games away from Slump Buster .. I always like when a good hitter lands in the Slump Buster.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

No one ever says the pitchers are facing excellent hitters.

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

The pitchers are facing excellent hitters.

(I believe GBacci has said this many times over the years)

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

They're called contrarians, if you say up they say down doesn't help to argue they will always take the opposite side. If they win it's their baseball genius, if they lose it's because this game is not realistic and it's all gbacci's fault. This game is great so why do they keep complaining ? There is a saying , if they are talking about you good or talking about you bad they are still talking about you.

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Show me one pitcher in an ATG league who is pitching anywhere close to his real-life ERA? Just looking at this one league, the best career ERA is Pedro Martinez at 3.41. His real life ERA? 1.74.

Nobody is trying to be a jerk about this, it's just that baseball is a zero-sum game. The hitter and the pitcher can't both win.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

The game needs a reboot. The simulator is iffy……at best. I have made the same arguments about hitting, as I had Carl yaztremski, Johnny bench, Jackie Robinson…and none could hit above the Mendoza line. I was told then that it is simple math….and none of the hitters I just spoke of had high ratings. (Another arguement for another day). Then….I go and draft the high rating players, both pitchers and hitters….had an unbelievable draft, then lose in the playoffs to a lower rated offense and lower rated pitchers. All of a sudden, the ratings don’t matter and everything is random.

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Let's put it this way.

The Arizona Diamondbacks are currently the worst team in baseball. I do not expect the Arizona Diamondbacks to make the playoffs, or even finish .500. They have bad "ratings." Their players are bad. It makes sense that they are not good. There's very little "randomness" that can cause the Dbacks to make the playoffs this year.

Yet the Dbacks have managed to win series this year against teams like the Reds. If they were to play the Boston Red Sox in a seven-game series, baseball would not be "broken" if the Dbacks beat the Red Sox. Anyone who thought that baseball was broken because of that would be looked at really funnily.

In ATG leagues, there are some greats (amazing players!) who are the Arizona Diamondbacks of ATGs, and there are some greats who are the Boston Red Sox of ATGs. Your job is to draft those Red Sox, while understanding that the Dbacks may win on occasion.

Finally, I will posit this: if the sim was truly broken, there would be no owners who win season in and season out. They wouldn't have great winning percentages. Yet, some owners have played long enough to identify those great players who will do better in the long run. If they lose, it is unfortunate, but at least they know they're going into things with the right process.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

re: E reid see my previous post ,feel free to criticize when you actually have played on here for my than a blink of an eye. Or actually won a ring and know what your talking about. You haven't done either, and there are hundreds if not thousands who will agree.

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I was in the league Ereid is talking about. He did get hosed. He had great pitchers get shelled. But that does happen in a short series when all four playoff teams are loaded with good players. Auto league playoffs are a crapshoot.

But it’s true you need to play this game for sample size. If you put your heart into one season it’s going to get broken. No matter how good your team is. But that happens all the time in the MLB playoffs too.

The game is just a roll of the dice. You can’t have the hitters do better without the pitchers doing worse and the pitchers already perform way under their stats. I always suggest if you don’t like how ATG leagues work then play in a different player pool. Random Player leagues I find to be fun because players seem to perform a little more true to their stats.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

As an update ... he has gone 5-8 since posting this message. I am sure I have had players have similar slumps during a season, this one just stood out because it happened at start of season and that .000 batting average really jumped out of the box scores.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Hosed and cheated sound kind of like the same thing. I checked the history with that team during the regular season, and in 12 games he scored 10 runs or more against me….exactly zero times. Then in the 7 game series he scores 13 in game 1 against a 97 rated starter and in game 2 ..11 runs against a 93. In game 6 and 7, he scores 14 against my 93 again….and then 12 in game 7 against an 89. Outside of babe Ruth….his offense wasn’t really loaded with tons of offense. Much lower rated offensive players. If It were a one game playoff u would have a better case for anything goes….but in a 7 game series it’s much harder to make that arguement. That his players are great, and my team is great, somebody wins and somebody loses. When the math clearly showed i had the advantage. And….no home team won a single game. Weird and highly unlikely.

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Mr Bubbles….what does having a ring have to do with anything? Lol. Maybe I haven’t played the game as much as some others on here…but I have played and observed enough to form an opinion. For example….how many ground balls get hit back to the pitcher every game? At least a half dozen or more….every game. U might see that happen once in a big league game….maybe twice. If at all. Another thing noticed are the chopped ball out in front of the plate….catcher to 2nd back to first double play. Almost every game u see it. That is a very tough dp to turn….even under the best circumstances. In fact…u would be hard pressed to find that play made in a game this year anywhere. The stolen bases are way overplayed. I have seen 10 steals in a game against a plus arm catcher (Campanella). No way that happens…..except maybe in little league. and ryne sand berg had at least 2 of those. Not exactly Rickey Henderson or Lou Brock. And the computer manager…….that’s a whole other can of worms. Horrible decisions by computer manager that no manager would allow….no matter how bad he is. Putting a Left handed first baseman at Ss? The criticism should be welcome if you want a higher quality sim. One that can be improved and made better.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Ereid feedback is always welcome. A few people have mentioned the ground balls to the pitcher and that has since been changed. It doesn’t make a material difference to the outcome of the games but it does feel unrealistic when it happens a lot.

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Whats worse about a lot of ground balls to the pitcher is that it is always an out, pitchers don't commit errors in PC, in my opinion that is bad, pitchers make a fair amount of throwing errors

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

A team that only has a 35% chance to win an individual game still has a 20% chance of winning a seven-game series.

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Feedback is not only accepted but worked on at an incredible rate at no cost to you. There's a Category called Feedback / Suggestions.

Like you may have a point about the choppers in front of the plate. I would guess that makes no material difference in the game - but could be improved. I don't know, I don't really watch the replays to see the language or specifics.

But when you talk about being cheated, and call the simulator iffy at best and unrealistic - that doesn't help anything. And if I were the brains behind this, it certainly wouldn't motivate me to address your concerns.

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Maybe the game should add PO and Assists to the stats shown for a player. Yes, it would be more for people to nitpick but it might also reveal any anomalies in the simulator if you see positions with way more activity than they ought to have at the end of a season. It sounds like Pitchers and Catchers would show more than is the actual norm.

I have never witnessed high SB activity, if anything it seems like people are thrown out to often. Certainly people like Rickey Henderson seem to perform poorly for me. I have seen Ty Cobb and a couple of other players have fairly high totals at end of season, but the players that had 25-40 SB in real life tend to not be very successful. That said ... I do not attempt many steals anymore because of this so maybe I just did not try long enough.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Actually the game does show actual Put out and assists - under compiled stats if you hover over the fielding % of a player it will show assists and putouts

But, it is not more granular than that - for example, an OF might have 88 put outs and 3 Assists, but if he has a secondary position of 1B - he might have accumulated the assists starting a 3-6-3 DP -or it could be an OF assist you just don't know

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Wow never noticed you could hover on the fielding pct and get that info. Thanks

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

also just as an update, the OP mentioned that the amount of balls batted to pitchers seemed too high, I thought i would look - and decided to go with a pitcher known to throw a lot of innings in order to get a fair idea

Nolan Ryan 27 Seasons Career Fielding % .895 but only 857 total CHANCES in 5386 IP - that's only 1 fielding chance every 6.28 INNINGS

Pedro Martinez 18 Seasons Career Fielding % .948 441 Chances 2827 IP

but those are both Strikeout Pitchers so a more contact pitcher

Gaylord Perry 22 Seasons .970 Fielding % 1264 Chances in 5354 IP

so, ya
there are way too many balls fielded by pitchers and they should commit errors as well

Re: Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

A change was already made to reduce that.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

Any chance you can make some change in the code to reduce whining?

I don't mind some constructive criticism of the site if it's done in a respectful manner, but some owners just sound so whiny about fairly minor details without seeming to get just how awesome PC is as a whole. Must be frustrating.

Re: ATG - Frank Thomas bad start

I have learned the whining does help make the game better. So I don’t mind it. When the attacks are not constructive or border on the personal that’s when I tend to lose my cool. A few times in the past year I’ve gotten something like “the user interface is horribly bad” … that’s just not helpful. It’s a large site that has been around for a long time so some interfaces are going to be a little aged and clunky, so making a broad sweeping “you suck” statement doesn’t tend to go over well. If you want to call out a specific area that needs work I am all ears.

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I trust that Gus wasn’t just being a smarmy guy with his comment which I am pretty sure was directed to my response regarding the OP’s remark about outs to the pitcher.

I researched to see if he had a point, and he did perhaps an adjustment was made, and it was worse in the past, but the OP has less than 1000 games under his belt so it must have still seemed excessive to him.

You need to realize that even hypochondriac’s do get sick