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OBP value in PC Rank


OBP value in PC Rank

VipJoe recently stated that OBP is doubled in calculating Rank purposes- why?

Isn't OBP directly tied to how well the team that player was on that season's was able to get on base in front of him?

I mean a ground ball hit softly with a man probably will result in the batter reaching via FC, which adds to their OBP but if no one was on base, it would just be an out?

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

AVG, OBP and OPS ranks are taken. The avg of those is what a players rank is. OPS is SlG and OBP combined. So according to how this is being done OBP is counted double.

It is why players like tony gwynn rank higher than Mark Mcgwire. I personally put a bigger value on a HR/AB rate than a single but the way this formula works it gives double credit for just getting on.

If you click into the player profiles look at what sub items have rank numbers next to them. The avg number of those totals creates the rank number.

Notice SLG does not get added into equation. This is what I was talking about in my other post. It is very easy to trade a player who is good at getting on base for a guy that will hit a HR every 10 at bats. All because he gets on base.

it is comical almost. I am blowing the whistle on my own finds.
The sim favors HR and SO. So why is OBP valuable? OBP is not even valuable in real Baseball as it is played today... lol

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

Very well said VipJoe.
Also very well said about “blowing the whistle”

🤫 Shhhh. Lol

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

It should be AVG and SLG.

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

Here's the issue. Players can't be expected to mimic their Real Life OBP's here. Between the Hits needing to come to keep batting averages somewhat in line (PC has always been slightly tilted toward pitching), the BB9 rates of pitchers coming into play, as well as other variables, so many players don't walk as much here as they do in real life, or as they are created. When you start relying on a stat that isn't holding it's weight, you begin to get "false readings".

I echo that sentiment in ignoring OBP a good deal of the time. I look at AVG, SLG, and also HR/AB..

Of course a Bonds, a Ruth, a Teddy Ballgame are going to still walk alot, but it won't be an insane amount like in their BB-laden campaigns.

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

I get that people continue to take Rank too literally. It's a leveling mechanism. SLG does not need to be leveled. You get doubles, triples, homers only after the sim has determined you're getting a hit to begin with. So that doesn't need any leveling. What needs to be leveled is success rates. That's why the stats that are used are used.

This is why it's Rank and not Rating. It's not meant to mean who is better than who. Yes it's also there to aid in giving a general idea.

Also, from the original Rank article, when it was created, to prove it was never intended to be what folks are now saying it is:

I want to reiterate though, the “Rank” is NOT any kind of guarantee. Someone ranked “92” could regularly play worse in Pennant Chase than someone ranked “81” (but the idea/hope is that a “92” probably won’t play worse than, say, a “65” on a regular basis). ... Good old research is still your friend - you’ll learn a lot about a player by checking his history and verifying how he plays across other leagues.

“Rank” also doesn’t consider many important factors like speed, defense, on fire or what type of power hitter a player is (homers vs. doubles, etc.). So it’s always going to be up to the user to know the game and make the critical analysis of each player. But what I’ve found is happening in many leagues is that it’s becoming impossible to know who is the cream of the crop. This is typically because as leagues grow or run progression, the stats start to vary wildly from player to player. In addition, since many commissioners don’t change their stat adjustments levels as the league evolves, the sim starts to throw the results out of whack.

Further: Does this mean Heilmann is better or more valuable in Pennant Chase than Barry Bonds? Of course not. This is just a guide, to let someone know, hey, maybe consider this guy you never heard of over Gary Sheffield, who you probably have heard of.

Okay, now back to the present time. If it's causing some sort of incredible grief, I'm not hearing that yet, and it's probably worth a follow up survey, but it's been around only a little more than six months.

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

Guy, I don't think any owners that read the boards and are invested into the site have "grief". We all have our tried and true approaches that work for what we are doing.

Newer owners to the site that this "rank" is meant to be a guide for are leaning too hard on it giving them some type of false hope. I get messages on a regular basis about how "players are not better" because all they do is look at rank. I then have to explain to them to look at the stat improvements and to understand the player did get better but their rank did not change.
This scenario is playing out too often.

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

I love the ranking system.

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

What do you love about it?

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

As an "owner" who has always valued players in a different way than most. I think Jay would agree we value in different ways, I have found that rank has "revealed" the players I used to get for a song. However, I have adapted by grabbing players using the more traditionally used SLG based (read the Slater method) value systems.

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

What I like about the ranking system is it allows me to run a solo play Sandbox league and quickly choose lineups for teams using rank. However, I understand that it is skewed in favor of certain stats - particularly OBP. Therefore I never use rank to determine a player's value in my other leagues. Honestly, it would be a more valuable tool if it was based on AVG, OPS and dwar (or FLD%).

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

I think if I have heard Guy right that Rank is not value but a number intended to help move offensive numbers move in line with Real Stats. In statistical terms, it is being used to move results closer to their expected norms. By establishing Rank, Guy has given the engine, a number which it uses in some arcane way to recognize when such leveling is needed. Is that correct, Guy?

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

sin hitting into a fielders choice DOES NOT add to OBP

it counts as an out

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

Wow, that's right, what was I thinking.. as Roseanne Rosanna Danna used to say " Nevermind"

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

Obviosly OBP is not as big of a factor.

But in some occasions, I will settle for a very strong OBP guy - slap hitter kind of guy (ex: lenny dykstra, tony phillips), that will assure me a ,340 OBP anyway, instead of any random dude with more pop but lower OBP...and I will sneak them him in at the 2nd spot of my offensive lineup to assure a minimal amount of traffic on base when my sluggers are coming at the dish...and there weakness wont be affecting the lack of depth of my offensive lineup has much...

But these guys need to have a way above .425 obp to make it happen... the sim will slash almost .100 points off there real obp...

A .340 obp is still a well above any regular joe obp league average...

If the obp is composed of an higher amount of HBP... (Craig Biggio will get HBP around 30 times a season) it's even better, since the sims seems to recreate the exact amount of HBP, where the walks are quite cut down in half...

Re: Re: OBP value in PC Rank

i feel like the walks have moved closer to their real levels recently

am i wrong?

Re: OBP value in PC Rank

More walks (and strikeouts) since switch to rank, definitely.