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Rank adjustment


Rank adjustment

Can someone explain the new adjustment in rank that occurred in some leagues? Also, to me rank does not seem like it would impact any stats and it’s only a means of comparing players. However, some People complain that rank has an impact on player performance. Is that right?

Re: Rank Adjustment

An adjustment to the Rank formula recently occurred, and that is reflected in all leagues across PC.

re: Rank does NOT affect the sim.
Real Stats are used in the Sim, not Rank. Example: If a league only allows players whose Real Stats show they hit a max of 5 HRs in a season, the 100 Rank hitters AND the 20 Rank hitters in that league are only going to hit about 5 HRs in an entire simmed season because the Sim uses Real Stats. The 100 Rank hittter is NOT going to hit more HRs than the 20 Rank hitter (because both players have a max of 5 HRs in their Real Stats, and the Sim uses players' Real Stats in the sim).

re: What is Rank?
Rank is such that each league's Player Pool is ranked from 100 to 1 by a mathematical formula that ensures 10% of the hitters in the Player Pool are ranked 90-100, 10% are ranked 80-89, 10% are 70-79, etc.

SPs are ranked separately from hitters and RPs; all SPs are ranked 100-1 in the same manner as hitters.

RPs are ranked separately from hitters and SPs; all RPs are ranked 100-1 in the same manner as hitters and SPs.

If a Player Pool has 200 hitters (totaling active rosters and Free Agent hitters), then there will be 20 hitters ranked from 90-100, 20 hitters ranked 80-89, 20 ranked 70-79, etc.

This is how Rank was originally intended, and the recent adjustment to the formula has brought that to fruition.


Remember, each league's Player Pool is ranked only compared to other players in that specific league. 1970 Vida Blue may rank 98 in one league, while in another league the same 1970 Vida Blue can be a rank of 84 (because Ranks of players are set only when compared to the other players in that one league's Player Pool). The league where Blue ranked 84 clearly has a lot stronger set of pitchers than the league in which he ranked 98, but 1970 Vida Blue has the same Real Stats in both leagues.

As an analogy, if you concurrently play basketball in two separate leagues, you are the exact same player. BUT, in League One the other players are all NBA players, and in League Two the other players are all toddlers. In League One, your Rank would be 1. In League Two, your Rank would be 100. You are the same exact player with the same exact skills (AKA Real Stats) in the two leagues, but the Player Pool is vastly different, so your Rank is vastly different.

[Note: Changes made to post after Gbacci clarification]

Re: Re: Rank Adjustment

So if a person plays mostly ATG leagues, the ranks will be the same in all those leagues?

How will this effect game play? For example, Hideo Nomo jumped from the 40's in rank to the 60's in rank. Will there be a noticeable effect in the quality of their play?

Re: Rank Adjustment

thanks ragingsol that is a clear, detailed explanation - much appreciated :)

Re: Rank Adjustment

Even though Nomo's Rank changed, he will sim exactly the same with his new Rank because the Sim uses Real Stats during game-play, the Sim does not use Rank.

Rank is to help human beings compare players in a league, Real Stats are for The Sim to make ballplayers play ballplayers in computer game-play.

Re: Re: Rank Adjustment

OK, makes sense.
Will the game play change at all in any way for ATG leagues?
I'm not complaining, just curious.
I do like the new Waiver System despite screwing myself on one team when I missed ranking my draft... My bad.. DOH!

Re: Rank Adjustment

There is no change to gameplay. Nomo at 60 still has the same number of pitchers who are ranked higher because everyone got shifted.

Two quick clarifications.... SPs and RPs are ranked separately, not together. So if you have 100 SPs in your league, you should have about 10 SPs in the 100-90 rank range.

Regarding rank impacting results... it is sometimes used as an overall weight adjustment. The sim engine is designed to work under real world circumstances (for example, 30 MLB teams with a wide range of player talent). But custom leagues do all sorts of interesting pools of players, which sometimes results in too much offense or too much pitching. That's where a commissioner can essentially lift offense or pitching by telling the sim the "elite" rank number in the pool of players. For example, if you lowered your elite hitter rank to 50, the sim would say, okay, HALF the hitters in this league are elite, so I'm going to bump ALL hitting stats about 50%. This will produce MORE offense in your custom league. That's why rank is important for leveling different pools. But at the end of the day, the results are still based on real stats.

FYI, the example above would be a BAD idea... in most all leagues, lowering the elite rank that low would result in absurd offense... usually leagues are best off sticking close to the recommendations, but leagues obviously adjust as they see fit.

Re: Re: Rank Adjustment

Alrighty then!

I'd still like to see a league with all the players from Deadball to Current, but we've discussed this before.. lol!

All in all, enjoying the upgrades!

Keep up the good work!

Re: Rank Adjustment

Can we get a consensus that its very silly to NOT run SPRING TRAINING Test SIMs in Custom Leagues prior to setting levels for the Reg. Season? Commishes w limited experience think they're doing everyone a favor by not running test SIMs, but they're actually blindly setting a number without a clue as to what it will produce. It drives me crazy. Especially when what is recommended NEVER produces accurate results.

Re: Rank Adjustment

Everything Raginsol said EXCEPT for the quantity of Extra base hit is spot on.

while a 100 rank may have only 5 HR and a 20 Rank only have 5 HR -you still need to consider At Bats

If the 100 Rank only had 175 AB and hit 5 HR's while the 20 Rank hit 5 HR's in 550 at bats the 100 rank SHOULD out homer the 20 rank if he is used as an every day player because the SIM should allow him to homer about 5 times every 175 AB (obviously Park dimensions could also effect results) but besides that, there really should be no change.

That being said, the higher RANK should not cause more offense, that should be driven entirely by statistics.

Re: Re: Rank Adjustment

With the recent change in the Rank formula I have discovered an oddity - The Stats below

Whip 1.41 (90) - H/9 8.7 (68) - K/9 4.0 (15)

The 3 things that make up RANK in a pitcher are Whip H/9 and K/9
in the player above you have a total of 178 - under the OLD rank system you would divide the 178 by 3 and the player would be about a 57 Rank

However the player above is a 87 Rank ?? How can we as owners know what a players value is going to be now when evaluating them or changing seasons? The old formula does not work anymore

Re: Rank Adjustment

It would take a bit of research, but I wonder if, in your example, if you added up the 3 rank totals of those stats for every pitcher in the league, if the final rank would still make sense compared to all the other pitchers?

So the pitcher ranked 100 would have the most total ranking points, then the pitcher ranked 99 would have the next most total ranking points, etc. That would make sense to me. Not sure if it actually works that way. It would explain how a guy with a 14 rank in one category could still have such a high overall ranking - simply because he ended up with more total points than most of the other pitchers he was up against in that particular league. Not sure. Do all the research and let us know!! lol
Gus

Re: Re: Rank Adjustment

Whip 1.41 (91) H/9 7.8 (91) K/9 5.1 (58) same League a 97 rank
Whip 1.41 (90) H/9 8.7 (68) K/9 4.0 (15) same League an 87 rank
Whip 1.40 (99) H/9 8.3 (84) K/9 5.4 (49) same League a 99 rank

The 3 pitchers listed are Ray Moore the 97 Brandon Bucky an 87 and Eddie Soloman a 99

However how can Ray Moore get 58 for 5.1 K/9
While Eddie Soloman gets 49 for 5.4 K/9 ??? More K's Less points????


SOMETHING IS WRONG

Re: Rank Adjustment

Hmmm. Methinks you’re on to something. Better send this one up the food chain. Guy Bacci!!!

Re: Re: Rank Adjustment

This is all Raginsol's fault!! he's a muck raker LOL

Re: Rank adjustment

You are comparing an SP to an RP, but they are ranked separately. That explains Moore vs Solomon.

Here is part of Guy’s explanation of the change, which was sent to commishes:

‘the previous formula was averaging the other ranks. Now, rank truly ranks all players against other players in the league. This means you will see an even distribution of 100 all the way to 1 ranked players.’

Basically it’s what Gus said.

Re: Re: Rank adjustment

Yes, as yankee (and my previous post) points out:

SPs are ranked against all other SPs, not against RPs.
RPs are ranked against only other RPs.

Comparing the rank of the two SPs to RP Solomon is comparing apples and oranges.

Inspector Clouseau (SCM) and his renowned sidekick Cato (Gus) can now get back on the trail of other mysteries.

Re: Rank adjustment



"SPs are ranked against all other SPs, not against RPs."
"RPs are ranked against only other RPs. "

Comparing the rank of the two SPs to RP Solomon is comparing apples and oranges.


WHY???

It would only be different if 1 group threw apples and the other oranges - they are all PITCHERS - we don't separate batters why pitchers?

8.6 K/9 should be worth the same for every pitcher - just like a .350 AVG is worth as much as any other .350 AVG - otherwise it causes false valuations-- a cigar is a cigar, unless its a Cuban...

Re: Re: Rank adjustment

Stamina.

Re: Rank adjustment

At Bats -- very important components from the batting side, in fact low at bats allows more production, albeit at the same rate/pace, but not considered, - no more than Stamina should be for pitchers -it's immaterial to the value of a strikeout how much stamina a pitcher has.

I honestly think SP and RP are separated to help create pools for Auto Drafts, there really is no other plausible reason I can think of.
In fact separating SP and RP into different pools May be the reason that pitchers dominate so much.

I'm not complaining but the logic escapes me.


Re: Re: Rank adjustment

RPs throw more Ks per inning because they don’t pitch long periods, multiple times through lineups, or they are specialists. This is why so many failed starters can become good relievers. So yeah, it makes total sense to not group them together, or you’d have 50 RPs with K9 ranked higher than the best SPs

Re: Rank adjustment

Yes agree with the above, it should be pretty clear why you can't lump SPs and RPs together. The At Bats point is valid, but that's why all leagues are encouraged to only have batters with a decent amount of at bats... if you are one of those leagues letting some guy who went 4 for 10 in your league, well, that's on you....

Regarding rank, while I think hitters might have been an even "divide by 3" pitchers never were.... K/9 was always weighted way lower, and WHIP was weighted the most... K/9 was in there simply because guys like Nolan Ryan who have obvious value because of their strikeout ability, have awful WHIPs and without a weight given to K's, their Ranks were unfairly bad....

Re: Re: Rank adjustment

Thanks for the detailed explanations!

Re: Rank adjustment

This is an Auto League comment:
I think the new Rank Adjustment has also increased some of the salaries (but I'm not exactly sure of this).
When the salaries got readjusted a while ago, it seemed the overall increase of salaries increased 1.33 from where they were. The old budget was $40. The new budget is $50. I still believe the new budget should be $52 or $53. As always, thanks Guy for all you do.