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Catcher dWAR


Catcher dWAR

Does dwar for catcher’s impact how many hits a team gives up? I’ve read that CF & SS have the biggest impact.... i think catcher’s probably impact the hits allowed the most (in real baseball) but I suspect the sim doesn’t really account for that since they don’t field batted balls... does anybody know?

I’m wanting to draft a high dWAR catcher over a better offensive player but am concerned that i’ll waste my pick. I’d appreciate any advice y’all have.

Happy 2019!

Re: Catcher dWAR

I found 8 catching seasons all-time that broke 3.0 dWAR. Led by Gary Carter's 4.0 in 1983... I'm not sure how it affects pitching for this site, but I know in reality, it is a multitude of calculations that go into DRS (Defensive Runs Saved), including ERA for pitchers when behind the dish, framing ability, foul ground covered, bunt coverage, and more ..

Now the all-time list is filled with SS's, 2B, and a mix of OF and 3B..The only position less prevalent is 1B, a known liability position, with a positional adjustment of -7.5 runs per 162 games. ..

So this IS a very good question. As a high dWAR catcher is a rarer bird in the grand scheme. But not worth as much trouble if the defensive effect of catchers is simply limited to the plays (sans pitch by pitch) theyre "involved" in, rather than an overall effect on pitcher H/9.

Re: Re: Catcher dWAR

I've found a negative dWAR C doesn't hurt as badly as a negative dWAR SS or OF.

I think alot of us vets are still suffering from old RF thinking skewing our views. We all looked for those C's with high-K pitchers on their staff, high RF, as it was a nice add to an already large aggregate team number..

I try to literally have a positive player at EVERY position if I can help it. At worst just below league average (-0.5ish).

Re: Catcher dWAR

In this game I’m sure it only impacts balls the catcher is fielding. I’d go offense.

Re: Re: Catcher dWAR

I suspected that was the case — thank you for the quick response.

I would like to lobby for adding catcher’s dwar to the list of future changes to the sim... catcher’s have the biggest impact on an opposing team’s ability to score runs, so excluding them makes PC less realistic and devalues some excellent catchers from having a meaningful impact of these games.

In the naive hope that there is philosophical agreement with this proposal, I’m guessing the biggest obstacle is how to technically adjust the code to account for catchers dwar. Since I don’t know the current code, this idea could be out of line with the current logic... but, perhaps catcher’s dwar could serve to adjust a pitcher’s stats (whip, h/9, etc). I’m guessing this could be some new code instead of altering current code (with lots of unintended consequences). The key would be how to moderate the impact in a non arbitrary way.

In such a scheme, catchers with negative dwar would make pitcher’s stats worse and positive dwar backstops would increase their pitcher’s stats. Obviously the impact should only be marginal as Gary Carter couldn’t turn a poor pitcher into a good pitcher.... maybe, cap the impact to +/- 1.5 h/9 — or some statistically backed value. I recall seeing Cardinals pitching stats with and without molina and the results were dramatically more than what i’m spitballing. Any interest in this idea or better related thoughts...?

Thanks for your consideration of this idea.


Re: Catcher dWAR

A catcher's DWar could allow LESS Wild Pitches and if we had them Passed Balls, however, besides being great at catching Pop ups, fielding infield choppers and bunt attempts, that's just not how DWar works in PC - it turns Hit's into outs Period, at least that is what I have been told. It should also include protecting the plate and preventing runs, but I don't think it does, that's not affecting a hit, it's affecting runs scored.

Re: Re: Catcher dWAR

Marauder,
Those types of plays are accounted for in the dwar stat, so if PC uses the catcher’s dwar to modify the pitcher’s stats then PC will be indirectly accounting for those hardtoprogram plays as well.

Re: Catcher dWAR

I am not saying you are wrong Papa, in fact it would only make sense if they were, they are all above average or better defensive plays and should be included.

That being said, on PC Dwar has been defined as a % of a chance to turn a hit, into an out.

A WP saved doesn't meet that criteria and neither does a great tag out on a runner trying to score from 1st on a Double or from 2nd on a single because it prevents a run not a hit.

So, do those plays count in DWAR in PC, from what has been said by Guy, no, he would know best.