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Redrafts in Keepers.


Redrafts in Keepers.

Here's a great tip for all of you . If you're in a Keeper league thinking saving SP is going to help you the next season YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

I've saved now 3 SP with the futile hope that I would get I'd get at least 1 SP over 60 offered to me in the last 3-4 leagues. It's not happening with this lousy SP redraft system. You're lucky to get a 50 and a 40 and of course, there's not one of them any manager in his right mind would keep for the season. So since the system has now made the supplemental draft a heavy SP draft, I'll have to spend 2 of my top 3 picks on pitching when I really could use hitting instead. Hey, I wasn't asking for Pedro or Zack, just one SP you can actually use who was ranked in the 60's or 70"s, but that is just asking to @#$%^%$ much I guess.

I've learned my lesson now, I get it you're screwed.
Now you all can biotch at me if you want but we've (I've) been hearing that this is going to be addressed now for 6 months and it hasn't been. .

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Speaking of wonky draft weirdness.
Despite having already drafted Derek Jeter and being given a low-average draft at best, my #13 pick was ALL Shortstops, and very, very low grade players at best.
Why would I be forced to draft nothing but shortstops when I already had one on the roster?
Then there was the usual wtf pitching draft where you get a pair of decent pitchers then the elevator crashes to the basement with passengers on board.
https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

For Lou, when you keep SPs, those become your ace, number 2, etc, even if they aren’t aces, so you won’t get offered top pitchers, because you already have, or it thinks you do.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

it helps you to sign sp you just need to make sure that are good p martinez typ lol is good to sign its ok not to spend all your cap thin you have more next season thats what makes this part of the game fun can you set up for the next season for a run of championships

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I saved Koufax, Walter and Randy Johnson. I ended up with Rich Harden (59) and Carl Lundgren (47). This is a joke. There was a 70 or a 60 I could have been offered and I started SP figuring it would take the pressure off the supplemental draft and HAVING to go after 2 SP right off the bat or don't get one worth having. It gets old man. Real old. I didn't save any hitters due to salary cap, and my hitting isn't the greatest. I don't play this game to lose 100 games and to finish in 3rd or 4th but this constant bs redraft is going to drive people away from the game. What's the point if you can't start the season without having to always go after SP because it's not going to be there if you don't. In the last supplemental draft of the 30 players taken 21 were pitchers with 18 of them being SP. Think about that.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Because if you keep 3 SP you are only going to be offered 4-5 starter types. Wouldn’t be fair if someone kept 2 stud pitchers for 2 years, then got offered 2 more studs and jdpt them 2 years, then the 3rd year get offered another and have a rotation of aces. Keep players who are tops at their position, but you aren’t going to be offered another top at same position after keeping one.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Yankeebob, you missed the point. I wasn't expecting a top player, just a doable player. The drop off is horrendous. I go from a 77 to a useless 59 and 47? As I said from the start all I wanted was to be offered a 70's or 60's SP. I was hoping to get 1 not 2.

Example: I just redrafted another team minutes ago where I didn't save any SP ( see I'm learning) Maddux 84, Guidry 72, Chesbro 57, Smith 50, Oswalt 39. I looked at the 8 other teams who have redrafted, why am I the only one with a pitcher in the 30's? Why wasn't I offered one in the 60's? As I've said over and over, I'm not looking for 5 80's 90's SP. Just a balance in the redraft because there is none.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I don’t play All Time Greats (just tried once), but I looked a random one of your leagues currently drafting. I se you kept a 90 SP, then hit something like 70s, 60s, 50s, and a 39. I checked other teams and they are same, all with a 50 or lower at the end. If your point is those players shouldn’t even be offered because there are plenty of better 50 SPs left, enough for everyone, I agree. If your point is you are getting junk but others aren’t, I don’t think that’s the case.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Yankee, my point is I saved 3 pretty decent SP with the hope I'd get offered one in the 60's or 70's looking ahead to the supplemental draft way back in last season. There's plenty to go around but they don't. My hitting is lacking massively because I didn't keep any hoping the redraft would give me one SP to work with as to be able to go after hitting in the supplemental draft. Now because of the SP system in redrafts, everyone will be going after SP and if I don't go after 2 of them in the supplemental then I'm screwed.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I can look at the logic as to why 60s seem to get skipped over. But also keep in mind the range in a typical auto league is aces are about 100-85. Second 85-70. Third 70-55. Fourth 55-40. The rest are 5th. We’re really splitting hairs here. Lungren and Harden are more than servicable in ATG and because of their low H9.

By being in a keeper you were able to keep two aces which would never happen in a non keeper. And now with the supp you could end up with three or at least two and an exceptional #2. The reason more offense isn’t going in the supp is because the recent change is allowing more good players to be drafted on offense. The old formula left a lot of great offensive players behind.

Again, not saying there might not be a tweak here to look into. But I don’t really understand this reaction. How could you possibly be on your way to 100 losses when you’ve started with Koufax and Johnson? Am I missing something or does that just not make sense?

So it may not be the best strategic decision to keep three starters. That has always been the case in the Quick Draft. You’re starting with your #4 in that scenario. If you’re not keeping any offense you’re behind the 8 ball, and now since not as much good offense is available in the supp draft it matters more. But I actually disagree that you can’t take offense with your supp pick. Your rotation is perfectly fine in most ATGs. Very few teams get two aces. Many teams win with a lundgren and or a harden at the bottom of a rotation.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I think you mean league 189. You are in better shape at top 3 SP than every other team. I agree better pitchers could still be offered for 4/5 starter. But every team has bad ones. Definitely pitcher is way to go early in supp since Pedro and some other good ones are out there. Hitters are tricky in All Time, they all look good. So I’m a little over my head figuring what to do there.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

In League 189, there are 2 teams that need to draft. thats 10 SP. There are 39 SP above 50, 29 above 60. Sure would've been nice to get offered someone in the 60's. There's definitely plenty to go around. Now all it's done is make the supplemental draft where everyone has to go after 2 SP because yes, everyone gets screwed.

I've talked to Guy about this in private many times and he always says he's aware but does nothing to fix the problem. Think about that supplemental draft. Every team needs 2 SP some more, if you're down in the pecking order you'll get the kind of SP you were hoping for in the redraft. I'm not looking for Pedro, Luis Tiant, types, but I sure would have taken a Clemens or Cicotte type and not complained.

Now look at league 521

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

You're in great shape in 521. Don't focus on SP at all in the Supp - load up on the best hitters, which will get your lineup competitive. Then slump bust Randy when the time comes which will essentially give you 3 aces. Also, I would bet a 60 SP will be available in free agency. Lots of options here. The reason this has not bubbled up as a priority is because it's just not a huge deal - there are lots of ways to work around the short comings of the draft - in fact that's sort of the point, to create a strategy of some kind. The Quick Draft is unique from the Daily in that sense, because you *do* have holes to fill, and there *are* good players available after the draft, which is not the case in the Daily.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Playing Jeter at SS is going to hurt your pitchers. Harden is fine as a "5" - you just need to upgrade Lundgren and your dWAR at SS and, if possible, CF.

- The Sheik

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Sheik fair point on Lundgren, he walks too many guys to be good; Harden is more than acceptable, posting a 4.07 ERA across ATG right now and 20 wins over .500. But Lundgren can be swapped in free agency if someone didn't want to waste a Supp Pick on it. I'm in an ATG where Nelson through Coveleski is still available. (78 - 60 ranks). Actually WTF, I'm picking up Nelson now LOL.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Nice you have that option. Wish I got Nelson offered to me though. or probably anyone of those 60-78.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

League 189, by the numbers.

First and foremost: The goal of the draft plus the supplemental draft is to try to give 12 teams the same statistical chance to piece together a team that could win the World Series.


Team: Keepers Breakdown :: SPs on Roster -- after the "re-draft" -- that are 60-plus in Rank

Circus: 4 hitters :: 87, 73
Bombers: 1 SP, 2 hitters :: 91, 70, 63
Flash: 2 SPs, 1 hitter :: 86
Choo Choo (OP's team): 3 SPs, 1 RP :: 91, 87, 79 (all were keepers)
Hobos: 1 SP, 3 hitters :: 86, 73
None: No Owner (& No Keepers) :: 0
Low Riders: 4 hitters :: 83, 77, 66
None: No Owner (& No Keepers) :: 0
Crotch Crabs: 3 hitters, 1 RP :: 74, 72, 63
ValleyCats: 3 hitters :: 83, 76, 68
CHHS: 2 SPs, 1 RP :: 94, 86, 63
Froggers: 1 hitter, 1 RP :: 79, 67, 60

Free Agent SPs:
90-plus = 2
80-89 = 7
70-79 = 7
60-69 = 8
50-59 = 14

24 60-plus in Rank
38 50-plus in Rank

Two teams yet to draft. Let's give them each 3 SPs that are 60-plus in rank. That leaves 18 SPs that are 60-plus in rank to be divvied out in the Supplemental and/or Free Agency. 12 teams. So, each team, in the Supplemental will get 1.5 SPs. Or, 6 teams will get 2 SPs, 6 teams will get 1 SP. IF everybody prioritizes 60-plus Rank SPs.

A few things:
1.) A lot of hitters were kept. 21 hitters, 9 SPs, 4 RPs. The OP kept 1/3 of the SP Keepers.
2.) We have no way of knowing when the OP drafted in the order. Did he draft 1st or 10th?
3.) We have no way of knowing what every re-drafter was offered, in terms of SPs. Is it an absolute given that every GM always picks the highest ranked SPs offered? No, it is not. I know I don't.
4.) The OP it seems should be elated that others may be going after SPs in the Supplemental, as there are eleven 90-plus ranked hitters available, and the OP already has the strongest SPs in the league.


By the numbers, after the draft, the OP still has the highest ranked SP rotation. It would have been against Equality of Opportunity if the OP would have been offered another 60-plus SP in the draft.

As always happens when someone tears into the current drafting logic, I look at the actual numbers and the complaints have little merit. If the OP would have pointed out that the other 9 GMs who already drafted weren't offered enough SPs high in rank to make their rotations as strong as his, that would have been a more valid complaint than expecting his team to be able to draft another 60-plus ranked SP.

As always, The WM has laid down logic to give 12 teams a chance, instead of letting one team draft themselves into a large advantage before a game is even played.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

You make some logical sense Raging but not totally. As I've said, I wasn't looking for a top of the line SP. Just would have been nice to be offered a usable SP. I play keeper ATG. It's my favorite game and I've been playing it for years and all I'm asking for is balance in the redraft. So I had enough forethought to say, Hey, I'll save these SP, they're damn good and my thought was, I would probably get offered 1 ok guy and 1 dog. Instead I got 2 dogs.

Now let's move on to leagues 223 which I just redrafted minutes ago and kept 2 SP and 2 RP.

Koufax, Greinke I kept. I know which pitchers are worth a darn and which ones aren't. So 91 and 86 thus far. Next 6 picks were mid low 60's. What happened to the 70's? From there to mid 50's and from there low 40's high 30's. Balance man. I want balance in redrafts and believe me, I will NOT be saving SP any longer. It's a waste of time and strategy.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I see what Yankee is saying and I get the logic, but what is the point of holding Players then?

It seems like all it does is reduce your draft by up to 4 rounds. I can see that if you had a say Nolan Arenado in 2017- his hitting and defense combo make him a better 3B choice than most others. so keeping him makes sense, but pitcher wise the only advantage would be a stamina or SO/9 edge. Bottom line, with Pitchers if you have 2 good ones going into the draft, you are NOT getting another one, which kinda sucks, BUT I understand why.

I had 4 teams in Auto leagues that I joined without a keeper, played out a season, knowing I would lose, but had an advantage for the next year. NONE of those Leagues EVER filled, after 3 MONTHS of waiting, so I quit them

I think we could get more Leagues to fill if you didn't get to draft UNTIL the League filled, then an e-mail goes out and you have 2 days to draft and can't quit, because the League is full- everyone is still in the lottery for the 100 Rank guy -

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I only hold the tops at their positions. If I have the #7 ranked 2B, no real point to keep them. But if I have the top 2B, I'll keep, because odds of me getting same or better than them in draft is little. So for SP, if you have a stud, but there are 5-6 better ones out there in the draft, may not be worth keeping. Keeping the 3 he did in the example above was actually a good idea. His top 3 is better than anyone else's. If he added one of those left in the supp, wow. Or he could just get the best hitters while others go pitcher. Anyway, same with any position, I only keep if I dont think I can do better in draft. No point keeping the #5 third baseman if the better 4 will be available in the draft. I can risk going for better.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

OK.....I might be jumping in here at the wrong time, but by the comment you just made Gbacci...I am taking it that the game now has taken a SERIOUS turn strategy wise and that we should not be concentrating on pitching as much as hitting, where as before I could have sworn that there was a post where it was stated that having a good pitching staff will make a team more competetive than a team who drafts with offense as the priority.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Having good starting pitching is still required but if you save good SP for the next redraft, those guys you save will be the only ones you have because it won't offer you one worth a crap in the redraft. That's what this thread is about. I'm finding NOT saving SP and concentrating on hitting works better because you're still going to need 2 or 3 SPs in the sup draft.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

The last poster was accurate in the sense that my comment was about Cuban’s particular case in which he already had two aces plus Randy Johnson (who could be a third ace if slump busted) but he was lacking star hitters. You still need some hitting. That’s always been the case.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

When selecting keepers, you need to learn how that affects the draft. For example, in the previous iteration of the draft, the first SP selection screen offered 5 aces to draft, but the second one offered terrible ones, and the third screen offered good solid ones. So, if you were to get the most out of your keepers, you'd want to save 2 SPs, because it meant that you replaced one of the bad rounds with a keeper. It was the same deal with OFs, too, actually.

Now, for starting pitching, it gives you declining order. An ace screen, a #2 SP screen, a 3-4 guy, and two rounds of bad. You want to select keepers based on whether they are a generic ACE or a Hall of Fame one.

This is true for hitters, too, of course, but I can't tell if it's the same logic, because later in the draft without keepers you get another TOP hitter screen.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

In fairness to the last Post about holding players in Keeper Leagues, it is really no different than NON Keeper Leagues - There is an allotment of what type of quality pitcher and or player you can hope to see.

In SP and RP - You MUST take the of best group you see 1st- PERIOD - so if the 1st group offers you a 70 Ranked SP Pitcher as your best option, you WILL NOT see a higher option in another round -PERIOD and Ditto with RP - each round gets WORSE

With Batters it's different, you generally will get offered a 90+ guy in the 1st round and maybe an 80+ somewhere in the next three Rounds - you then randomly, but usually by your 10th position Player, get offered another 80-90 ranked guy, USUALLY AT A POSITION YOU HAVE ALREADY FILLED with a high or semi-high ranked guy, which really is not what you want.

I have done 9 drafts on Quick- non Keepers in the last 3 days, none of which have produced a team capable of beating the 2018 Orioles more than twice in 5 games - or even worth playing, they have ALL been dropped, no harm, no foul , the league was not full.

However, I also see teams that look good after the draft, it definitely seems that if you are not drafting in the top 5 - you have holes in too many positions to be able to fill, while the teams that already had a good start improve themselves even more, sure, they don't get another 90+ SP but they take the 70+ that would be someone else's 2nd best starter after the draft left them with 72,64,44,23,14 ranked SP's - good luck with that.

Others have said that if you look at Pitchers past seasons it should give you a good idea as to who usually out performs their rank, HOW?? They are pitching for Different value Defensive teams or teams with weak bullpens that could cost them wins, Etc, it's apples and oranges -

I am down to 4 teams, just can't get a viable contender- NOT A CHAMPION -after the draft.

I am not anti change, but it's bad - Really bad. just my opinion and kinda why I advised a previous questioner to " Find another Hobby", that was kinda mean, but I was also kinda depressed because, I don't want to have to myself!

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I'll say this again, not for those who love keeper leagues, but for newcomers - avoid keeper leagues. Non-keepers level the playing field and are so much easier to navigate. Everyone starts from scratch. You have just as much of a chance of getting every player in the whole league as every other owner. Every season. I just don't get the attraction to keeper leagues other than those who are already in them and have a decent team that they want to build on. Newbies - head over to the non-keepers.
Just my opinion.
Gus

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

If the quick draft is so bad, and I’m not arguing that it isn’t, why do some refuse the daily draft? Does it take too long? Was the quick draft easier to game? I’m just curious.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

The daily draft also does not snake, it is far to huge an advantage for the top slot.

If i have to draft 12th every round I am not going to have much of a Chance against a guy who selects 1st every round.

Beside that, it's much more agreeable, than the current set up, I previously thought the change was OK, there HAD to be another adjustment made since then, because it has gotten worse.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

In non-keepers, the daily draft DOES snake, Sin. If I have the 10 overall pick in Round 1, then I have the 3rd pick in Round 2, etc. etc. Very fair.

GBacci, I honestly don't know why so many avoid the Daily Draft non-keepers. One guess is that some of the veterans on the site are quite happy to stick with their keeper teams and aren't interested in anything new, especially if they don't have the same kind of advantage over new players as they do in the keepers.

I don't know why anyone (new user or vet) would want to join a league where some of the best players are already tied up as keepers for other teams. I've never been able to wrap my head around that one.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

You know what, your right, I forgot about that - it does snake. but it takes like a week to complete the draft which I guess is not unreasonable.

It also does away with the FA frenzy, I guess it's just that you need to rank 3 times a day and that can be problematical - finding the time in my work day is tough, plus My mom had an issue and I was busy, but my sister came up from Florida and freed me up quite a bit, plus happily, my mom bounced back well.

However it is better than Quick draft.

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

You guys are acting as if keepers are forever. They are for 2 seasons max, and the pitchers especially are pretty costly to keep for 2. I like the keeper leagues because it's fun keeping 1-3 players for an extra season. Of course there are people who like to take advantage of others, but silly to think that's why vets play in keeper leagues. Is everything a conspiracy?

And yeah, daily draft is far better, you will get the team you want! But some people dont like the constant having to rank.

By the way, I've done just one of the new type of quick drafts and I thought I got offered a good enough team. I had a few keepers too. I am speaking of just a single experience though. Obviously some have had issues.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I don't care for the DDNK's because some years, you just get a bad draft with maybe one or two players worth keeping.
It's nice to know the next season might not be so disappointing, because you had some say in the direction the team took instead of just a random draft every year.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Gbacci, believe me, I sure wish there were more Daily Draft Keeper leagues!!
Put some in the mix, I WILL sign up!

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Somehow the original point of the post got lost.

My experience since "the change" happened, has been that if you save a pitcher, say Randy Johnson at a 77 rank, every pitcher you get after him will be lower rank, so you end up having to spend your entire Sup Draft to get a pitching staff worth a damn. It's not just in one league or another, this has been a trend I've noticed over the last few months.
Then if you do save an ace pitcher, say Pedro Martinez, you might get 2 serviceable pitchers, and the last two are dead men walking.
I've learned to adapt to it by remembering to never save pitchers.
Like I said, this isn't just in one particular quick draft league, it's a noticeable trend that I picked up on after a couple of seasons of WTF.
I really enjoy the QD & DD Keeper leagues, and I'm gonna keep playing, but I'm not sure the way the pitching drafting currently works is the best way to go about it.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I don't at all feel that the original point of the post was lost, in fact whether its a keeper or non keeper League the same thing is happening, albeit slightly differently.

That being said, the best Boss I ever had once told me the following after I brought up what i felt was a shortcoming in the company, he said " Never present a problem without a viable solution, otherwise, you aren't helping"

Guy is trying to even up the playing field a bit, and there was a lot of crying about how the Old system was before the change, personally, I'd take the Old way again in a heartbeat, but at least Guy did TRY to improve things

I myself confess to not having a great solution, what's Your suggestion? anyone???

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Now this is more like it, a decent team, some holes, a slow team, but with a little luck, and some pick ups, at least I have a chance.

https://www.pennantchase.com/lgTeam..

Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

I have offered a perfectly viable solution several times.
Got tired of beating a dead logic horse.

Re: Re: Redrafts in Keepers.

Not a Keeper League, but I just had this insanely good redraft:

https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
I could, quite easily, play this team as is.

- The Sheik